Can we have "True damage in stealth" in some future update? | Forums

[topeira1980]

Once of the more baffling decisions in GRW, among many, is the altered damage of your weapons (or altered enemy health) when shooting from stealth. Even a single pistol shot to the foot will disable an enemy.
This makes the damage of weapons meaningless when stealthing. Why would i use a sinper rifle with a silencer when stealthing when its easier to use an AR to get a lucky shot on an enemy's elbow? why would i aim at the head if a knee shot is just as good?

I am kind of OK with changing damage output in stealth to make things slightly easier in this game (because how broken the AI detection rules are and how the enemy, once going from "Unaware" into "Searching mode" always know EXACTLY where to """"Search"""" for you (many quote marks here because it isnt really searching when they always know where you are) so you kinda have to be more effective in stealth to have a chance, but the way this damage change is done is making weapon damage and where to shoot an enemy not matter.
I would accept and welcome a change where A large caliber can kill an enemy with one shot anywhere, LMGs might require 2 body shots, but ARs, SMGs and pistols should require atleast 2 or 3 body shots to kill an enemy.

Ghost Mode seems like the perfect place to implement such a change but it wasnt mentioned in the trailer and im sure it isnt there.

Just thought i will resurrect this old discussion because of the new operation 2 trailer.

[Megalodon26]

I think that changing hit models would be too hard to change, at this point. So all we can do, is pretend that shot placement actually means something. So keep going for those head shots, because that is what you would do if realistic hit damage was in place, just like I will still double tap every enemy even when one bullet would suffice .

[LaMOi]

Would be a great to add this ....

[GiveMeTactical]

I think that changing hit models would be too hard to change, at this point. .

I agree but then again I always ask myself this question... why do most people not care about damage model weapons when they are playing a shooter game? Why do the Companies selling Shooter games care more about eye candy than programming good mechanics?

Can you imagine this new Ghost Mode W/O permadeath but with "True Damage Model" for enemy AI?

We all have said, this game is great, fun but it could be 10 times better if only... (add your likes and dislikes here!).

Here's hoping they take this feedback and utilize it on the next one...

[Ghost416]

This is just my opinion, but I believe what Ubisoft was going for with the one-shot stealth kills was to represent an enemy's relaxed state of readiness when unaware of your presence.

[GiveMeTactical]

And I second that opinion but... it opens up a huge can of worms when they (or some here do) state that "This" is because the game is trying to be as real as possible... only to do something arcade-ish with "That".

Whether you are relaxed or in a state of alert, a bullet will do the same amount of damage but, I can concede that if you are alerted, adrenaline will help out but only so much... not to the point of giving you God-Like abilities and take 3 to 5 shots before dropping down nor it will help you keep shooting while your body is taking damage.

[Paladinrja]

Wouldn't it be simply because people making games focus on gaming challenges rather than simulation? I mean, makes sense to me. You're discovered, you're therefore not going to get an initiative bonus.

Kinda like suppressors in these games? In reality, suppressors actually nominally increase the performance of a firearm; trapping gases in an elongated barrel with a second-stage compensator, tends to do that. -- In these games however, it's a tradeoff. You get to be silent (a reaction bonus) but do less damage, etc..

So in reality, suppressors add no detriment to the performance of a firearm. However, we don't use them in open engagements because the longer the barrel, the more impact it has on RoF. Ideally, you increase the immediacy of your firing arc, by having the front of the barrel as close to your body as is safely possible.

[topeira1980]

This is just my opinion, but I believe what Ubisoft was going for with the one-shot stealth kills was to represent an enemy's relaxed state of readiness when unaware of your presence.

i doubt that even UBI think this is the reason.

But i have a better guess why that is - to compensate for various other imbalances of the game.

Here is my theory:
GRW started with your standard AI awareness model and damage model even in stealth, just like any game on the planet.
But ehn UBI wanted to incorporate the rebels assistance and synch shots and wanted those features to be fun to use and for players to use those features a lot because they should appeal to the masses.
They chose that the way to not exploit those features is to put them on cooldown and create side missions that decrease the cooldown and once every 3 side missions - increase the effectiveness.

HOWEVER(!) this made the game really easy. so easy, in fact, that a player can wreck almost an entire base without ever setting a foot inside it. simply call rebels again and again and sync shot enemies over and over.

ummm. problem. What can we do to encourage players to actually play the game instead of letting it play itself?
oh, we have a briliant solution - lets make it so no matter how the enemies notice that something fishy is going on (they hear an explotion, find a dead body, hear a ricochet etc) they immediately know where the player is. even if they dont see him. even if it makes no sense. this way we bring the fight to the player once a shootout breaks out because the enemy saw a dead body that was killed 10 seconds ago by an AI's sync shot whlie that AI was 300 meters from the player whom the enemy know where he is.

So, great. we fixed once aspect of the game by ruining another aspect. Now a player can't synch shot his way and constantly cause distractions using nades and dead bodies to trick the enemies to look for him some place else and make the game too easy, all the while keeping the OP mechanics in tact.

But wait, now players need to actually be a part of the action and they need to use stealth to succeed, but stealth is so difficult to maintain because every little disturbance in the perfect stealth the player is discovered and stealth is destroyed. we created a problem in the balance. how do we balance the game??

Oh, i know - we break something else in the game - lets make stealth super easy by making every shot a fatal one!

Yeah - we broke the game 7 days from sunday just so we can keep the OP mechanics in tact. woot! UBI = 1. gameplay = 0!

[topeira1980]

I dont guess anyone noticed any change the enemy AI behaviour in this latest update, ey?

[LTJasonWolfe]

I think that changing hit models would be too hard to change, at this point. So all we can do, is pretend that shot placement actually means something. So keep going for those head shots, because that is what you would do if realistic hit damage was in place, just like I will still double tap every enemy even when one bullet would suffice .

In the real world, center-of-mass is the target. Only in rare circumstances are headshots actually used, especially for snipers. Realistically, one shot anywhere on the body is enough to physically disable virtually any would-be combatant, be it in the foot, elbow, chest, or head. This is due to body's reaction to trauma, namely shock. When a person is shot, the bullet does a tremendous amount of damage, and the body has to cope with that damage, both physically and mentally - the way it does this is by inducing shock, which can easily render a person unconscious. So the stealth bonus does actually reflect real life, to an extent.