Soft feints | Forums

[Alustar.exe]

At my level of play I catch more players off guard with a hard feint than I do a soft feint. Without soft feints, many attacks would just become parry bait.

[SpaceJim12]

At my level of play I catch more players off guard with a hard feint than I do a soft feint. Without soft feints, many attacks would just become parry bait.

I really see not so many people, who parry right now. Sometimes someone parry accidentally, sometimes with phenomenal prediction, but most of common fights now works only on blockes. In season 4 you could catch a lot people off guard with HL's Celtic Curse softfeint. Now almost everyone block it, and someone parry. Bers feint spam make people paranoid, as well as many soft feints from Shaman. It's better block, until opponent loose all his stamina. Noone attempt the parry, if not know pattern or not sure this attack is not feintable. Do heavy from neutral without feint nowadays just stupid.
I'm not complaining it all, but I really think this one sided way of play is not a good thing. Everyone complained about defensive meta, now we have fast attacks and feints. Simple heavy lost it's sense, everyone use for fienting. I don't like feints, cause it's most unrealistic mechanic in this game. I think reflex guard, Wardens CC and deflects could be better solution for Defensive Meta. But it's only me. I'm ok with guys who cancel everything they do, and you just watch them and think "Come on! We don't have all day for this". Remember this stupid situation on Den in the end of season five. Where two players (pro, I think) demonstrate Arenas maps. One of them do a Guardbreak and than side heavy on Shaman, and than cancel it. It's become an idiotic muscle reflex. And I saw funny pictures of two Berserkers in the zone, who just stay in front of each other and cancel-cancel-cancel. And even if someone of them will do light after heavy feint, opponent will block it and do light after heavy feint.
Remove guaranteed GBs and lights, and you will see chaos mess in For Honor.

[LEGENDz_31]

Soft feints require no skill to pull off. You should have to input all feints. Soft feints shouldn't be removed, they should be costly like zone.

I agree 100% as a life long Orochi (even when they were low tier) I have always had to manually feint into gaurdbreak. Skipping a input seems lazy to me. Let the people control there own fakes and not let some skip a input. The soft freight narrows the gap from a truly good mixup artist and average one in my opinion. On your last point, costing a zone stamina is fine to me because it there is a hefty cost to it.

[voiddp]

Yeah right, lets make game even harder for newbs to get into. Nice that devs dont thinks that and with more reworks we will see more simplifying of unneeded complications of controls.. AKA softfeints of usefull moves on reworked characters.

[SpaceJim12]

Yeah right, lets make game even harder for newbs to get into. Nice that devs dont thinks that and with more reworks we will see more simplifying of unneeded complications of controls.. AKA softfeints of usefull moves on reworked characters.

Unfortunatly, game already too hard for newbs. And community show it very clearly. I played For Honor since beta, I started with 4 friends. Now only one still play. Another one try to return, but can't stand a single fight against reworked heroes. He is not bad player, no, but when he understood, how many hours of practice he will need against new Rochi, new Kensei, Shaman etc etc, he just skip it for something more casual. I have 10 people who tried For Honor from season 2 to season 6. 8 of them play only for 8 hours. They just put their hands down after death after death. When your statistic always 1/8 k/d you will never enjoy the process.
Maybe devs don't understand it, maybe some old players don't understand this, but For Honor have no chance to attract a lot of new players. Let's say, they could giveaway 3 million copies during free week. I could bet all of my steel, that 2 million players already don't play For Honor and 500K ready to uninstall it. Game already are to complicated for newcomers. And with new character in October, I think, will be even more complicated.
So, don't worry about newbs. Someone who stayed in the game after 10+ hours, will adapt to any high hard mechanic.

[voiddp]

I am new player. And i can talk about experience. Got game on free week. Had only 3 characters at start one of them kensei i choose to play.
And yay. i could actually compete with people after few days. Hard feins was something so hard to do in fights with game controls that i could just forfeit game if i didnt have any other options but to get all my hits parried and me destroyed. Default controls suck and dont help. Remaping them after some time and to be even worse with controls for some time was a lot of pain without hard feints concept and one more button.
But thankfully i learned about using softfeints trained to use them, then i got things going and then started to use hard feints too bit by bit, because soft feints helped to get concept and when i need to feints and why. But with ability to fight even without them. And that wasnt after yours 10 hours. around 2 weeks of real time for me and still cant do all i want even after a month and still learning.
So kensei softfeints was my newb helper to be able to play at a bit farther from begining.
All characters need to be simplified and get some softfeints as a tool to have more fluid learning curve for newbs.

And about your friends - they just wanted to play old game with their old skills. And rebalanced and reworked game is different. Its just a fact. So if they didnt want to learn any different and just left - they didnt want to play that much. They left with hard-feints. They left with soft-feints. Its just not their game. How is it soft feint fault when they left even without them.

If you are annoyed that your hard feint skills can became somewhat invalidated by not being able to destroy anyone who can not use them as easily with some reworked characters - its understandable. But also you need to understand that this concept is actually the big part of the hard learning curve for new players. When they cant even start to learn what you know and can use already because of the need to almost play on the piano as controls... And your big difference in skills will still help you a lot, because some things you still cant do with just soft-feinting.

[SpaceJim12]

I am new player. Got game on free week. Had only 3 characters at start one of them kensei i choose to play.

Well, you pick up most fitable character to learn the game.=) As I said, Kensei have quick access to really fast and helpful softfeints. In a moment, when you learn to Swift Strike and softfeint his very slow heavies into light by simple mouse move and left mouse button push. One of my friend start to play on Warden, but want to play as PK. He bought starter edition right before season 5 ends. When he got PK, devs nerfs her and my friend just can't enjoy game at all. Nice move, devs. Some pathetic looser abuse her zone cancel, but newcomer who like her style become a victims of this nerf, cause loosers will keep abuse her zone cancel with little less profit.
Unfortunatly, we have a lot of smurfs thanks to this free week. I know HOW people could play on average and high level, and I know how new players play For Honor. And when I see rep 2 overall player, who knows everything about his norep char advantages and disadvantages, can counter every move from opponent and feels overall like he live in this game, I understand he is stupid smurf. And there enough of them. Some of thouse ten people I mentioned try to play solo (with me he have to high opponents) and one day have two games, where rep 0-3 guys crush him and his party with no chance to survive. This only one of many factors why For Honor do not attract new players. Don't get me wrong, I like this game, and I want new players, better and wider community. But I see so many reasons why people left. Even we, people with enough skill and playtime sometimes can't enjoy this game, how you expect new player will?

And about your friends - they just wanted to play old game with their old skills. And rebalanced and reworked game is different. Its just a fact. So if they didnt want to learn any different and just left - they didnt want to play that much. They left with hard-feints. They left with soft-feints. Its just not their game. How is it soft feint fault when they left even without them.

I mostly said about newcomers in the middle of game liftime. Thouse who left did it fro their reasons.

If you are annoyed that your hard feint skills can became somewhat invalidated by not being able to destroy anyone who can not use them as easily with some reworked characters - its understandable. But also you need to understand that this concept is actually the big part of the hard learning curve for new players. And your big difference in skills will still help you a lot, because some things you still cant do with just soft-feinting.

No, I'm ok with soft and hard feints at all. I just don't like em as a mechanic. But while parry still in a game, I think devs just don't know who to stop defensive meta. Passive play style still is most safe in a game, even after so much changes to parry and adding this stupid 400ms lights and tons of softfeints. So, maybe whole direction of this process are wrong?

[AzureSky.]

Soft feints are the only way to open up players on the top rankers, if you don't have that you break competitive for honor since nobody can do damage to anybody and instead they just turtle to get free damage on parry, and the fix is not deleting the free damage on parry cause if you do that you will only see assasins with 400-500ms attacks everywhere and the game will be just more of a light spam fest than it is now.

In other words, soft feints are actually helping you, if you are a parry spammer and not a parry king (that knows when to parry and when not) it's your fault, not of the game.

[Knight_Raime]

Still, you have to know timings to do Shinobi combo with kneeled, and it's require 6 buttons input. Maybe not so skillful for Shino mains, but still need some work. HL Caber Toss need some hard inputs.
Kensei pommel strike just ask you to spam GB button after heavy animation started. Same with Conq shield bash instead of heavy. This moves shouldn't be that easy, or should require a lot of stamina, I agree with OP here.

Just because some inputs are harder to do does not make them skillful. Making all soft feints on those levels wouldn't change anything dramatically.
Also spamming the soft feint button is ill advised. as delaying your soft feints makes them much harder to react to compared to buffering via spamming.

[bannex19]

I understand the need and while my original post was poorly expressed my opinion on soft feints is that they should cost more or do 33% less damage or something to counterbalance the simplicity and safeness of the moves. I think variety is the spice of life with for honor and soft feints are interesting but on some characters they're way too safe, easy and difficult to react to on ps4.