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[Vakris_One]

Yeah I get where you are coming from. The original battlefronts had me hooked and playing for years too, when I first started gaming. I still can’t get over the campaign of Battlefront 2 one of the best I’ve played. The emotion is real: I know it follows the 501st legion, which was under Anakins command, but is it considered canon, do you know?

Unfortunately it's no longer considered canon. Disney purged everything from the canon that didn't happen directly in the 6 movies. So far only Star Wars Rebels have been re-canonising bits and pieces of the expanded universe like Thrawn, Mandalorians, Phase 1 Dark Troopers, Clone troopers after the war, that info disk from Dark Forces 2, etc. Maybe they've mentioned the 501st in one of the new books but I wouldn't know. Disney decided right off the bat that its business interests are far more important than decades of Star Wars canon. Destroying all evidence of the original wheel so they can re-invent the wheel and sell it again for their own profit.

The no stationary vehicles or ships to get into, I can understand. Battlefield used to have that, but it resulted in the enemy team landing in spawn and then flying off in your teams helo/jet, which massively affected your teams chance at the game. I think EA and dice did the same for their version of battlefront, and while I miss that immersive part about it, I can live with it.

I do admit I miss Galactic conquest and boarding enemy ships, something which I hope returns later this year or when they release the next Battlefront next year, to go with the next movie.

With the heroes, I see your point too. Saber v saber isn’t much more than spam attack and hope for the best, but saber v infantry is where the skill shines. It’s hard to survive and get a streak going unless your proficient with the hero or villain.

One can only hope the backlash they received made them realise and remember they’ve been voted worst company before, and they can’t pull it again.

One would hope so but EA don't seem to care about what their customers think of them as long as they can keep making money.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Just to weigh in on the Star Wars discussion.

The issue is and will always be that Star Wars as an IP is for children (teenagers). Most of us were that age when we were inducted, but the IP hasn't grown up with us, and it won't. As a result much of the Star Wars content that's been created is the product of maturing minds trying to adapt a simple fantasy into something appealing for nuanced thought. This gave rise to an interesting web of big ideas wrapped in space magic and synth laser sounds. As brilliant as much of that content was (and still is), it was not intended, hence why it is no longer canon.

EA, for all their insanity and anti-consumer practices, actually understands what the Star Wars IP is. The simplistic shooter that is Battlefront is exemplary in both its depiction of the Star Wars universe and its player experience (audience experience). It's a candy with a snippet of wisdom printed in the wrapper.

[Vakris_One]

Just to weigh in on the Star Wars discussion.

The issue is and will always be that Star Wars as an IP is for children (teenagers). Most of us were that age when we were inducted, but the IP hasn't grown up with us, and it won't. As a result much of the Star Wars content that's been created is the product of maturing minds trying to adapt a simple fantasy into something appealing for nuanced thought. This gave rise to an interesting web of big ideas wrapped in space magic and synth laser sounds. As brilliant as much of that content was (and still is), it was not intended, hence why it is no longer canon.

I think you're way off base here Jazz. You're telling me that Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy, The Youzhan Vong series, Karen Traviss' Republic Commando series and et al cannot exist alongside the more kid friendly aspects of Star Wars? I strongly disagree. If Star Wars was only designed as a young kids adventure with none of the nuances of mythology, spiritualism and real world metaphores of politics and wars such as Vietnam to delve into which George Lucas originally wove into Star Wars (among other themes), then it never would have become this huge globe spanning pop culture phenomenon. Not to mention that not everyone was a kid when they first discovered Star Wars and became enamoured by its sense of adventure.

The expanded universe started with Zahn's Thrawn books at a time when the hype of Star Wars had begun to wane because no more movies were being made and there was a huge untapped market of young adults and twenty somethings who would embrace the more mature storytelling of Zahn's books. From then on the primary driving factor of the Star Wars fan base has been twenty somethings and slightly above rather than "kids". From books to video games to collector items the target market that drove Star Wars throughout the late 80s, all of the 90s and pretty much up until this point in time has been twenty to thirty somethings possessed of their own independant spending power.

EA, for all their insanity and anti-consumer practices, actually understands what the Star Wars IP is. The simplistic shooter that is Battlefront is exemplary in both its depiction of the Star Wars universe and its player experience (audience experience). It's a candy with a snippet of wisdom printed in the wrapper.

Knights of the Old Republic begs to differ. As does pretty much every successful Star Wars game that came before EA. For sure the more mass market friendly SW games have always sold well but the Star Wars games that are considered all time greats are often the ones aimed at not just delivering eye candy with Star Wars music and sound bites. But rather ones that do that while also incorporateing creative gameplay mechanics and/or ambitious story telling.

EA don't so much "understand the Star Wars IP" as much as they are just doing the thing they've always done, which is creating a shallow yet pretty looking blockbuster experience. Pretty much the Michael Bay of video game studios. Want a big yet shallow and uninspired mass market blockbuster? EA has the money and market experience to make that happen. Nothing about what they have done with the Star Wars IP is exemplary outside of the graphics, which frankly should be a given considering the last Star Wars game to attempt to push modern blockbuster graphical fidelity was in 2010.

There is a whole back catalogue of Star Wars games that have been genuinley exemplary in their depiction of the Stars Wars universe as well as in the player experience. Some of them like Jedi Outcast managed to do both at the same time. To put EA's two admittedly pretty but completely shallow attempts on that level frankly cheapens the word "exemplary" to the point of "exemplary" now meaning "the new mediocre".

[Jazz117Volkov]

I think you're way off base here Jazz. You're telling me that Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy, The Youzhan Vong series, Karen Traviss' Republic Commando series and et al cannot exist alongside the more kid friendly aspects of Star Wars? I strongly disagree. If Star Wars was only designed as a young kids adventure with none of the nuances of mythology, spiritualism and real world metaphores of politics and wars such as Vietnam to delve into which George Lucas originally wove into Star Wars (among other themes), then it never would have become this huge globe spanning pop culture phenomenon. Not to mention that not everyone was a kid when they first discovered Star Wars and became enamoured by its sense of adventure.

The expanded universe started with Zahn's Thrawn books at a time when the hype of Star Wars had begun to wane because no more movies were being made and there was a huge untapped market of young adults and twenty somethings who would embrace the more mature storytelling of Zahn's books. From then on the primary driving factor of the Star Wars fan base has been twenty somethings and slightly above rather than "kids". From books to video games to collector items the target market that drove Star Wars throughout the late 80s, all of the 90s and pretty much up until this point in time has been twenty to thirty somethings possessed of their own independant spending power.

For the most part, I my original post actually addresses your question.

The phenomenon we know as Star Wars is what created the books and the stories and the games, and that content was created by adults who grew up with Star Wars, thus their interpretation and realization of that fantasy was mature. The stories were written by authors who wanted to use Star Wars as a vehicle for their ideas, which is fine, and as I said, much of it was brilliant. But, it was not intended.

I too am somewhat of a Star Wars fan, age has done its thing and I don't care so much for it anymore, but I still appreciate the mythology. George Lucas of course weaved different things into his lore, he also based the empire on post WW2 fascist propaganda and the rebels on the more relatable Americans. Creators always base their work on real world sources, or other fiction that they grew up with. In the case of Star Wars authors, they grew up with Star Wars.

I think there's a lot that to be looked at in the expanded universe, both the content itself but also the force that gave rise to it. Countless writers and fans so passionate about something that was only extraordinary in their minds. Star Wars as it exists to Star Wars fans and Star Wars as it exists as an Intellectual Property are two very different things. Star Wars the IP is a set of teen films, animations, and ungodly amounts of merchandise targeted at young people. Star Wars according to fans is basically a religion, a screen on which their every idea and desire is projected. It is maybe the best subject for a case study on "fan ownership", which I'm not picking a side on, I'm just, look, this happens.

Knights of the Old Republic begs to differ. As does pretty much every successful Star Wars game that came before EA. For sure the more mass market friendly SW games have always sold well but the Star Wars games that are considered all time greats are often the ones aimed at not just delivering eye candy with Star Wars music and sound bites. But rather ones that do that while also incorporateing creative gameplay mechanics and/or ambitious story telling.

EA don't so much "understand the Star Wars IP" as much as they are just doing the thing they've always done, which is creating a shallow yet pretty looking blockbuster experience. Pretty much the Michael Bay of video game studios. Want a big yet shallow and uninspired mass market blockbuster? EA has the money and market experience to make that happen. Nothing about what they have done with the Star Wars IP is exemplary outside of the graphics, which frankly should be a given considering the last Star Wars game to attempt to push modern blockbuster graphical fidelity was in 2010.

There is a whole back catalogue of Star Wars games that have been genuinley exemplary in their depiction of the Stars Wars universe as well as in the player experience. Some of them like Jedi Outcast managed to do both at the same time. To put EA's two admittedly pretty but completely shallow attempts on that level frankly cheapens the word "exemplary" to the point of "exemplary" now meaning "the new mediocre".

Well, no, exemplary simply means "to be an example of". An example of mediocrity is exemplary mediocre. But to the point, "shallow and pretty" is generally all Star Wars strove to be. The IP, not the expanded universe, which is no longer canon, because it was never intended, because the IP is for young adults and teens, and I think way too much for any single entity to catalogue and determine the worth of.

I don't mean this to sound like Star Wars is meaningless, it certainly isn't, but I think it's an easy mistake to burden fiction with expectations that are unfair in the literal context.

[Vakris_One]

You make some very important and well thought out observations. With that I think it's relevant to consider how the creative side of something like Star Wars can be flattened into a bland, homogenous product. By thinking of it purely in business terms of Intellectual Property and target markets and profit margins, etc. Business considerations are of course essential if you want to make a successful product and certainly a franchise but excessive focus on just the business end of things ultimately can make the creative aspects of anything meaningless as it all just becomes about ticking off a checklist.

You can't make a successful franchise with your head in the clouds but neither can you expect to make something that is innovative and meaningful with business acumen alone. Star Wars has persisted for so long because it is a symbiotic merging of the two rather than over flowing into just the one.