Community Manager
Yep, we even had a similar thread about a different hero just a week or two ago ("should I feel bad for playing X?") . It doesn't even necessarily have to be a hero that is doing well per winrate information/tier lists.Originally Posted by Vakris_One Go to original post
In-game hate towards you, as an individual, for playing a specific hero? That's probably just salt resulting from losing or gameplay frustration. It can happen for so many different reasons.
None of this invalidates legit feedback on the present state of Shaman, btw.
Junior Member
Well of course you are having fun as her when there is no one that can defeat you you son of a ***** I just played with a shaman and when she guard breaks you and thats A LOT considering that you have to watch out for many more things she uses attack from THE TOP which deals the biggest amount of damage taking a lot of your HP. Also you need to watch out for her biting mechanic which is totally stupid and shouldnt even be there then her push which then she can attack you after and she is also very ****ing fast and also she has a bleeding mechanic she... is stupid and OP "I dont think she is OP you said" "Its incredibly fun to play" well guess why you fun hating baby punching shaman maining dude... no actually you have to be kind of good with her but she is OP she is not bad as Centurion but she is OP...
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Junior Member
You didn't provide anything that really makes much sense and you sound like a really upset person...maybe come back to edit this comment when you've calmed down a bit...Originally Posted by DaFakeSquidward Go to original post
Banned
The reason there is a lot of hate directly toward Shaman is not just because she is OP "per say", it's because you're playing a whole new game when you're playing against her. I'm a rep 50 Shinobi and here's what I mean when I say "I'm playing a whole different game" vs her.
#1 : Leap attack
Against any hero in the game, I can react to a leap attack with double dodge kick and punish with my ranged heavy. Not against Shaman. If the shaman starts her leap attack from far away, it'll work fine and I'll get my punish. If the shaman starts her leap attack close to me, she'll land super far away. As a result, my double dodge kick will whiff in the air and it's the shaman that will get a free punish on me, even tho I did what I do against any other leap attack in the game.
#2 : Soft Feint Heavy into GB after Heavy
Against any hero in the game, when I get hit by a heavy attack and "predict" he's gonna go for a guardbreak after, I can spam light attack and I'll be able to punish my opponent for trying to guardbreak me. Not against Shaman. After a Shaman successfully does a heavy attack on me, she can soft feint another heavy into a guardbreak before I can start my light attack animation. Thus, only against shaman, I can't spam light attack after receiving a heavy cause the shaman guardbreak is 100% safe and will catch me if I do.
#3 : No window of opportunity for ranged GB
Every single Shaman moves combos into something else. Her attack have weird timing and almost no recovery in-between attacks. As a result, you can't ranged GB a Shaman after she whiffs a dodge attack, because she already recovered and will be able to counter GB. You also can't ranged GB her during the heavy attack start up animation because since she can soft feint it into a GB, she's thus able to counter GB you. There is just no window of opportunity against her for ranged GB.
#4 : Some of the things she does are just plain unfair.
You just started playing, but have you read about "out of stamina punishes" ?? If a Shaman throws you on the ground, she gets a leap heavy + heavy + bleed punish. A simple bite afterward is enough to easily finish you off. Since she can feint her bite pounce, baiting a dodge from your opponent is very easy and thus, that "out of stamina punish" is an instant kill. A lot of shaman are running very high revenge gain equipment just to be able to knockdown more easily because of that stupid overpowered combo.
#5 : Bleed Synergies
Some character in this game can inflict bleed. Some can inflict bleed very, very easily. A shaman gank vs a bleeding target is able to instantly close the fight without any chance of revenge procing. Shaman has the easiest and fastest gank potential in the game. At competitive level, the "perfect dominion comp" is Nobushi / Peacekeeper / Shaman + anything else. Just because Shaman ganks vs bleeding target is THAT GOOD.
#6 : Throw distance
Despite being an assassin, she can throw you 100 meters away after a guardbreak. Thus, she gets easy wallsplat or environment kills. Everybody hates environment kills.
#7 : Impossible to parry leap attack
You probably know already her forward leap attack can be done in all 3 directions. But did you know every direction the attack comes from have different parry timing ?? It's about 500 ms from the left, 600 ms from the right or 700 ms from the top. Thus, muscle memory will screw you over if you try to parry her leap attack.
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TLDR : I'll stop there even tho I still have 3-4 points I could write about. But in short, she's just cancerous to go against because she has so many tools to work with and the way she plays is so "out of sync" with the other heroes that you need to learn how to fight her and forget everything else you think you know about other heroes.
Imagine you've been playing baseball for years and today is the first day you face a left handed pitcher. That's what it feels like playing vs shamans. What you're used to doesn't work anymore, but muscle memory gets you punished.
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Junior Member
Well shoot, thank you for this in depth response...after all the comments and my experience with this thread, I've kinda resolved what I should do moving forward with this game. And that would be that I should continue to play Shaman. If people want rematches, I can play another hero. Now, I'm just curious as to which I should learn first as all the heroes I am interested in are incredibly different. You don't need to go in as depth as you did by pulling apart the Shaman, but if you have enough experience with the heroes I list to pull apart their main mechanics and perhaps guide me to what I may enjoy the most, I'd be greatly indebted to you, We.the.North.Originally Posted by We.the.North Go to original post
1. The Gladiator
2. The Highlander
3. The Valkyrie
4. The Shugoki
Edit: This is not just for We.the.North to answer...anyone that would be happy to help break down one or some of these characters in depth to help a new player like myself out when it comes to choosing who to pick up first or who I would enjoy I am more than happy to read your posts.
Banned
I wont cover them as much in depht, but I'll cover them all.
#1 : The Gladiator
The #1 thing you need to know about Gladiator is the fact the 2nd part of his zone attack is guaranteed if the initial shield bash connects. Also, if the shieldbash doesn't connect, you can cancel the 2nd part of the zone attack so you dont get punished. As a result, Gladiator's zone attack is the safest move in the game, does decent damage and is very hard to protect against since the initial hit is an unblockable / unparryable bash attack.
The #2 thing you need to abuse is the "Toe Stab" or "GB" mindgame. After each of your attacks, you can feint, toe stab or GB. Get those mix ups going. The only defense against toe stab is dodgeing and if your opponent dodge, they are vulnerable to guardbreak ... Remember : Toe Stab gets your punished with a free guardbreak while guardbreak doesn't get you punished if the opponent counter guardbreaks ... so abuse the guardbreak more than the toe stab to be on the safe side of things.
Last, keep in mind skewer shove after 2 bleed application if you are near a wall since it'll wallsplat for an additionnal heavy attack punish. Be warry, it's very easy to parry a skewer move. As a result, 90% of the time, gladiator will cancel that move into a guardbreak. In fact, gladiator abuse A LOT cancelling all sort of move into guardbreaks since countering a guardbreak attempt doesn't reward anything.
In short, Gladiator is a solid dueler and probably the best pick out of the 4.
#2 : The Highlander
The #1 thing you need to abuse with the Highlander is the offensive stance kick | kick into caber toss. It's a true 50/50 with great damage punish.
The #2 thing you need to abuse is the 400 ms recovery on offensive stance dodge. Many heroes can't get proper punish when they dodge an attack where highlander with his 400 ms recovery will be able to punish a lot of things others can't. You'll need to do massive reading on forums to know exactly what you can and can't do with that offensive stance.
Parry and guardbreak punishes of the Highlander are very poor. hence the importance of mastering the offensive stance.
In short, the Highlander is another solid pick, but requires extensive reading and lots and lots of practice.
#3 : The Valkyrie
She's getting a complete rework in October when Marching Fire "DLC" will release. As a result, maybe you should avoid her. You dont want to build muscle memory with a character just to have everything change all of a sudden. Furthermore, she'll probably the worst dueler at the moment with very low damage output both from neutral and from her punishes ; while also being extremely easy to punish with a simple side dodge + guardbreak after most of her moves.
In short, avoid Valkyrie.
#4 : The Shugoki
Are you a patient player ?? Because Shugoki only mean of doing anything is by turtling fishing for parry punishes or by trading blows while your hyper armor is up. To me, Shugoki is extremely boring, especially in duels. Those take ... forever.
In short, if you play with a friend that can combo stuff you can abuse while you play Shugoki, go for it ; otherwise, you'll get bored. Shoving and Hugging people in Dominion can be fun tho ... but everytime you'll get into a 1v1 ... it'll get boring.
