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  1. #1

    Ecos in the Dvision 2?

    Wouldn't it be better if sometimes (not always) to reproduce an Eco we had to search for more for data, hack some computers, access satellites to get data and use all that information and the complete eco just to lead us to some other place without the game give all direction so easily for us?

    When everything is given so easily for us, it make us lose the sense of exploration and investigation!

    How would you improve Eco experiences in the Division 2?
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  2. #2
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    The Quest Design in TD1 was...abysmal... to put it gently.

    Variety is what makes PVE content enjoyable.

    There should be quests of all shapes and sizes..
    Short/Fast/Easy quests that the map and way point shows you exactly where to go.

    Medium/semi-fast/normal quests with some easy parts with way points and other parts you neeed to figure out yourself. (Some quest parts would have Hints if you are stuck to help you along )

    Long/Slower Quests you need to figure out what to do and where to go.. no Hints.. you have to figure out each step of the quest for yourself.. the quests have bits of information in them but yiu have to put the information/clues together to advance .. No Waypoints.. nothing shows on the Map.

    Heritage Quests.. quests that you worl through and Each DLC has more parts to the quests that allow you to improve the rewards

    Special Quests.. these are hidden quests you come across while exploring the open world.. some might be Treasure Map quests you need to decipher the clues to find the location of the chest....Others could be Satellite navigation quest you need to get specific co-ordinates for..etc etc..

    Historical quests.. very lengthy quest lines to obtion Antique style weapons/Armor.. have all the diffrent quest types throught the quest =fast,normal and hard parts. Treasure maps to get parts of the Item/Gun/Armor peice.. Sat-Nav Quests.. Waypoint quests. Landmark quests..a few Cyphers that you need to decode.. etc etc..

    Skies the limit on PVE content, so mamy ways to make the content Massively Enjoyable,Eventfull,Engaging,and Varied.
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  3. #3
    RushLoongHammer's Avatar Senior Member
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    For me the echos are a staple of the Division and it'd be disappointing not to see them.
    But I'd like to see new ways of describing the world like computer terminal entries or notes along with the phone recordings and echos.
    -
    In regards to the sense of exploration, I felt Div1 did a poor job. There was a perk that unlocked the location of all recording locations on the map and the 'finding agent' things in the early game were a follow the arrow.
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  4. #4
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by RushLoongHammer Go to original post
    For me the echos are a staple of the Division and it'd be disappointing not to see them.
    But I'd like to see new ways of describing the world like computer terminal entries or notes along with the phone recordings and echos.
    -
    In regards to the sense of exploration, I felt Div1 did a poor job. There was a perk that unlocked the location of all recording locations on the map and the 'finding agent' things in the early game were a follow the arrow.
    ...Yeah.. that also was a tremendous let down to me, why would you show the location if Collectables? The whole fun in finding collectables is exploring every nook and cranny to find them, and also comming across them accidently :*)..

    ....There was No quest design in TD1 .. it was all Paint By Numbers = go from point A to point B to point C . there will be Waypoint to lead you precisely where you need to go = Detach Brain its 100% not needed.

    ...In a Rated M PVE-RPG game, your targeting an 17+ crowd. We dont need to be lead by the Nose, have our hand held.. allow the Players to actualy Quest and figure things out,Decipher,put the pieces together for themselves to advance by Playing the game....

    ....We dont need a Guided Tour of The Division,we want to be an Agent that has to figure the content out, and besides it adds much more depth and time to the PVE gameplay..

    ...If TD1 quests and collections didnt lead you by the nose, and you instead had to figure things out yourself it could have doubled,tripled and in some cases quadrupled the amount of PVE play time.. instead the game just Rushed you throughto level 20 and the content and then there was nothing to do but run mission zones on repeat.
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  5. #5
    RushLoongHammer's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Giralus Go to original post
    ...Yeah.. that also was a tremendous let down to me, why would you show the location if Collectables? The whole fun in finding collectables is exploring every nook and cranny to find them, and also comming across them accidently :*)..

    ....There was No quest design in TD1 .. it was all Paint By Numbers = go from point A to point B to point C . there will be Waypoint to lead you precisely where you need to go = Detach Brain its 100% not needed.

    ...In a Rated M PVE-RPG game, your targeting an 17+ crowd. We dont need to be lead by the Nose, have our hand held.. allow the Players to actualy Quest and figure things out,Decipher,put the pieces together for themselves to advance by Playing the game....

    ....We dont need a Guided Tour of The Division,we want to be an Agent that has to figure the content out, and besides it adds much more depth and time to the PVE gameplay..

    ...If TD1 quests and collections didnt lead you by the nose, and you instead had to figure things out yourself it could have doubled,tripled and in some cases quadrupled the amount of PVE play time.. instead the game just Rushed you throughto level 20 and the content and then there was nothing to do but run mission zones on repeat.
    Yea, I think they don't need to make certain parts of the game so hand holdy, like the collectibles.
    If they were afraid that everyone wouldn't find them all, there will always be online guides for those unwilling or impatient to explore or observe the world to find them.
    The Division is the first game I've played that made collectibles not enjoyable to find; not to say that the collectibles weren't well made, just boring to collect.
    The 'Missing agent' ones were the worst of them; literately A-->B-->C-->D
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  6. #6
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by RushLoongHammer Go to original post
    Yea, I think they don't need to make certain parts of the game so hand holdy, like the collectibles.
    If they were afraid that everyone wouldn't find them all, there will always be online guides for those unwilling or impatient to explore or observe the world to find them.
    The Division is the first game I've played that made collectibles not enjoyable to find; not to say that the collectibles weren't well made, just boring to collect.
    The 'Missing agent' ones were the worst of them; literately A-->B-->C-->D
    ...What baffles me, is the developers of these games make content and just give it away in a week.
    ...Everyone knows you Cannot make a limitless amount of PVE content. It's just not possible. But Utilizing your PvE content in numerous ways can maximize the PvE content you create.
    ...you can only run a mission zone so many times before you're bored.

    ...Take TD1, the LZ had so many places and building to utilize in quests in various ways, if the quests had Hints in them.

    Example :
    ......you find a cell phone that has a american flag Cover on it.
    .... You turn it on.
    ...The phone belongs to a person who makes Vinyl decals for all sorts of things (helmets,guns,etc..)
    ...To find this person, and return the phone. You need to go through the Photos on the phone.
    ...Each photo is of a Flag and a small hint of the General area somehow shown in the photo.
    ...some would be easy to figure out. Some not so easy. Some hard and a couple really hard ones(maybe even no picture just a note = Reminder: take photo of flag spray painted on traincar on the lower east side)

    ...when you go to each location and find the Flag you get a update of a clue of where the persons hide out is located.
    ...Find all the flags
    ... Get all the clues.
    .....Figure out the clues
    ......go to the Hideout, and the guy/girl thanks you for returning his phone and offers you a Vinyl Decal of a Flag (of any country in the world) for your Gun and also a Vinyl Sticker you cam apply to any Metal/Plastic Helmet of a matching flag.

    This would be something I as a PVE player would love. (And the i thought that up in 5 minutes.. if i was a developer.. sheeet i would be thinking up so many diffrent and various quests types to put in the game that the PvE game would seem near endless or to put it in MMO terms = Everquest ) if you make a nice big Juicey game world..fill that world up with a Variety of content that keeps players always chasing (interesting) carrots!
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  7. #7
    RushLoongHammer's Avatar Senior Member
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    That's a great idea!
    Being able to look through the phone's text messages, call logs and photos.
    Learning about people like that would be awesome.
    This is on my wishlist now :P

    And like you said it could have information on it that could lead to kool encounters, hidden locations, or unmarked quests like returning the phone or hunting down the person who killed the phones owner, or finding a stash of supplies referenced in a text messgae, ect
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Giralus Go to original post
    The Quest Design in TD1 was...abysmal... to put it gently.

    Variety is what makes PVE content enjoyable.

    There should be quests of all shapes and sizes..
    Short/Fast/Easy quests that the map and way point shows you exactly where to go.

    Medium/semi-fast/normal quests with some easy parts with way points and other parts you neeed to figure out yourself. (Some quest parts would have Hints if you are stuck to help you along )

    Long/Slower Quests you need to figure out what to do and where to go.. no Hints.. you have to figure out each step of the quest for yourself.. the quests have bits of information in them but yiu have to put the information/clues together to advance .. No Waypoints.. nothing shows on the Map.

    Heritage Quests.. quests that you worl through and Each DLC has more parts to the quests that allow you to improve the rewards

    Special Quests.. these are hidden quests you come across while exploring the open world.. some might be Treasure Map quests you need to decipher the clues to find the location of the chest....Others could be Satellite navigation quest you need to get specific co-ordinates for..etc etc..

    Historical quests.. very lengthy quest lines to obtion Antique style weapons/Armor.. have all the diffrent quest types throught the quest =fast,normal and hard parts. Treasure maps to get parts of the Item/Gun/Armor peice.. Sat-Nav Quests.. Waypoint quests. Landmark quests..a few Cyphers that you need to decode.. etc etc..

    Skies the limit on PVE content, so mamy ways to make the content Massively Enjoyable,Eventfull,Engaging,and Varied.
    Perfect!
    I think you explained very well! That way the game would be 2 or 3 times better at least! This is the way to make an average game into a great game!
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  9. #9
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Multicut Go to original post
    Perfect!
    I think you explained very well! That way the game would be 2 or 3 times better at least! This is the way to make an average game into a great game!
    Thanks,

    One of the Main issues with todays RPG game aspects is they dont allow the Player to actually do anything.

    Ill take 1 of the most popular RPG games recently as an example = The Witcher 3

    The Wither 3 is a Game that could have been an Epic game that lasted months and months and months :
    .....IF instead of every quest just showing you where to go with a map location/waypoint. the quests instead had hints in them to point you in a direction.
    ....lets say you kill a man, you search his body, you find a scrap of paper that says "meet me at the swaying man, where the dirt marks the claw of the dragon" ... is the swaying man a Tavern? = Is the claw of the dragon in the dirt an imprint from a fierce battle?.. (it turns out that the swaying man is hanging from a tree near where 4 roads converge and it resembles the shape of a dragons claw)

    ...or how about all the Books you collect on the Witcher 3 ? .. there coupd have been So many ways to use multiple bookd to have to research and put together clues to advance in a mission, learn an upgrade to a spell. Learn a person or places location. Learn of a unique monsters location and a hint at one of its weaknesses since it isnt part of your normal monster hunting manual.

    How about No landmarks showing on the map until you discover them. One of the most absurd things was they put in Secret treasure locations.. and then you can Show all locations of everything on the map Including the Hidden treasure locations = Completely Baffling.

    Instead of the game being a near endless adventure of exploration, discovery,figuring things out that you could play for a year and never experiance it all.. the game just showed you exactly where to go,where everything wad. What monsters weaknesses were amd it shrunk the game down to the point you could beat it in less than a week (and that was on Death March difficulty ).

    People say "Turn off the mini map then" well that does nothing ..because.. "the quests gave you NO Clues on where to go, you either follow the Waypoint or you wander around 100% aimlessly in hopes you somehow randomly stumble apon apon where you need to be (basicly like having someone hide a needle miles into a jungle and them you have to find it without any clues)

    The division 1 is the Same way, you can detach your brain to olay the PVE game = go hear and kill.. go here and kill 10 rikers.. go here and use a pistol to kill. Go hear to PvP and kill. Go to the DZ and KIll. Etc etc etc.. 99.99% of the game is /Waypoint to go kill something.. and that does not an RPG game make.

    PvE players want other things to do besides Just kill things in various way.. there are Olenty of things to Kill om your way whike questing,performing tasks. Exporing for hidden collections, hunting down a location of a hidden stash or treasure.. etc etc..

    You cant make endless amount of PVE content.. But you can make PVE content in such a way that it is Near endless in its ability to allow the player various ways to experiance that content.. ( and kill 10 enemies.. kill with a shotgun.. kill a boss 10 times..kill in sewers 10 times..kill 30 yellow enemie .. kill PVE enemies in the DZ ..kill kill kill kill kill...is certainly not a long term RPG-PvE Plan)
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  10. #10
    Trippul G's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Giralus Go to original post
    Witcher 3 [...] you could beat it in less than a week (and that was on Death March difficulty ).

    If you beat The Witcher 3 in less than a week, especially on the highest difficulty, there is no way that you've done every single thing that the game has to offer. You've steamrolled your way through the main quest line, and not much more. You can't fault a game for not giving you enough to do if you don't take the time to experience everything it does offer.
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