Honest players demand proof of how a cheating report is handled | Forums

[WBBCoop]

Well Ubisoft, good news for you! As opposed to you, i keep my promises so as of this morning I'm back and forthing with a Kotaku editor about the whole situation here and trust me, it's about to get very interesting PR-wise. They'll even feature the youtubber who made the video above in the piece they're setting up and check this out, he's not the only one that did it. But it gets better:

I'm wondering, do you (or Kotaku) know the choices the devs (or Ubi for that matter) has made in maintaining the progression of the games direction? Can an attempt to knowingly or unknowingly inquire the internal calculations for a business automatically assume dysfunction or motive when it is disregarded as mischievous?

Things are not always what they seem but some things can be nothing other than what they are. In this case, my vote for what is unseen holds more merit (even legally) than what is on the surface. Good luck!

[Morfanos]

...
Unknown to you, i'm a very well organized bastard so remember all those threads, post and videos you removed as "damage control" for the past year? Well, good old Mike here screencapped pretty much all of them because Mike has a strong nose for dirty cover-ups Oh, should i add that Mike also kept a nice little record of all the blatant cheaters names that players reported time and time again, you know, the ones you quickly removed hiding behind the "No cheaters shaming" policy, and the time and date when they were reported? You'll be surprised (no you won't actually) how many of them, on a short player tag search, are still playing... Anyway, to sum the feedback i got so far "This is a big nice fluster cluck that's about to explode".

...

Honestly, after our long discussion we had on that one thread a while ago, this doesn't surprise me one bit coming from you. I knew you'd be someone I'd enjoy arguing with/against. Just to be clear, this is a compliment, not sarcasm.

Can't wait to read more on this, keep us posted.

[Mike_the_Brave]

WBBCoop, can you please provide at least some evidence to back up the following, unseen, efforts, that in your opinion, deserve merit for a product that is 3 years post launch and not rated as Alpha, Beta, Release Candidate (or variations):

1. BattleEye efficiency in preventing and combating cheating
2. Ubisoft Customer Service efforts in resolving cheating requests
3. Ubisoft efforts in combating cheating

I and others can provide plenty against 1 and 2 and i hope you are kidding requesting proof regarding point 3. In a bit of a funny twist, my in-game chibi on all weapons was the "Facta non Verba" one so you can pretty much get the idea that i'm not one to be swayed by fancy words. Should i point out just how many regression bugs resurfaced on the last update? should i also point out how sanity tests work and what's the no.1 cause of regression bugs on a release? I could argue "negligence" and "incompetence" but given how well polished (in my opinion, at least) Operation Outbreak game mode was as a release, i highly doubt the development team got dumber. To me, the current build is horrific and was rushed out the door in hopes that the 2 new operators would generate revenue but that's just my opinion and I won't think less of someone finding it excellent (for example).

What i have trouble understanding WBBCoop, is what's the harm on knowing and being shown proof regarding how the Customer Support handles the cheating requests? what drives your blind faith and makes you not question, at least at a basic level, its competency? If you would find out that it's indeed, just 1-2-3 (ideally a 3 men team so the winning vote is done by majority) guys looking at the sent video and judging, by that video alone, no other DB data, records or advanced tools, if it's cheating or not, would you still be satisfied? How would you cross that method with the fact that, in most videos, 7s is not enough to capture a cheating behavior? would you still applaud a jury dismissing fair judgement for lack of evidence when they are directly responsible for the lack of proper methods to collect enough evidence? With all due respect, i don't see how your continuous "Let's not stir the boiling pot!" attitude helps anyone.

Regarding Kotaku (and other entities i contacted), I have faith in them doing a good job but frankly, some of my contacts were already on the trail that something is fishy. I was sent a video and received some detailed data that made my jaw drop, so yeah, I'm pretty confident they'll reach out to Ubisoft for statements

[UnReaL.dP]

The fastest I've ever seen someone get banned is two weeks after submitting multiple videos. It's usually closer to a month

[WBBCoop]

WBBCoop, can you please provide at least some evidence to back up the following, unseen, efforts, that in your opinion, deserve merit for a product that is 3 years post launch and not rated as Alpha, Beta, Release Candidate (or variations )

No, I can not provide anything more than opinion.

What i have trouble understanding WBBCoop, is what's the harm on knowing and being shown proof regarding how the Customer Support handles the cheating requests? what drives your blind faith and makes you not question, at least at a basic level, its competency?

Because knowing how Ubisoft handles their business is not my concern. It never was. I bought the game for entertainment purposes and I have received more than the current value of the game and quite frankly more than I have ever dreamed of. The continuing support for Siege has been and is currently over the top for my meager 60 bucks. How they can afford me to play on my 6,000 pennies is on the backs of the players, not mine.

I guess I'm an old school style type of Siege player. We had teams, had improved seasons and had a blast to no end. I haven't seen Ubi stop so far so I can not hold them accountable nor bind them for something that I no longer pay for. Don't get me wrong, I agree that purchasing a product that is expected to last for a total of 10 years technically should be in line with the original 'free server time with free dlc downloads bought with free in game currency' forever agreement. But honestly, for me, I think that would be a dlck move and hopefully you ( and Kotaku if they read this ( they have some bad rap too btw )) can see why.

Until I see the devs stop providing what we are asking here in these 'official' forums for, I have no cause for alarm. For all I know, these lackluster accusations could be spot on. Then again, we might be in some transition stage of the game where the structure (or whatever) needs an overhaul and we end up with Op Health II. Ok, so Ubisoft seems to have bigger fish to fry than dealing with some dude who tries to intentionally get himself jammed with hacks ( take the same guy and tell him to get severely raunchy to a female and have him post that up on YouTube and see how fast he gets banned ). TBH, the player could just as easily handed the transaction info to Ubi-Headquarters and call it an honest day. That would have been much more professional and I also wouldn't think that he has way too much on his hands. Meh, we're all addicted so I'll let it slide .

Seriously, it hasn't been long enough for me to start agreeing that Ubi is handing out more free content without a care in the world on how we treat it. Give it some time, but I can already see that you are real freaking anxious to find out what's behind the curtain. I can't and won't help you. I will help Ubi if they told me what to do. Oh..yea..they did that already but nobody seems to take them seriously. What gives?

[Mike_the_Brave]

Thank you for taking the time to reply WBBCoop, on some aspects i agree with you, on others, i don't but that doesn't make you wrong and me right. Most likely, we come from different mindsets and that makes us behave differently - with absolutely no intention to be regarded as a negative, you seem like a "glass always half full" type of fellow while I, call it a professional defect, first ask you if you poured half a glass in or you spilled half a glass out before composing my response.

And No, i don't expect this game to be free forever - while i respect and admire it's initial broad (and pretty unique) scope of (mostly) each dlc being purchasable with in-game earned currency, I'll frown upon it if it comes at the cost of lax cheating policies and stability problems. I'd rather pay for each dlc and have a stable game with a effective anti-cheating system than have a mish-mash of both but marketed as the first.

The last 2 paragraphs of your reply continue to baffle me - firstly, you seem to have a problem with that youtuber exposing how ineffective both BattleEye and Ubisoft's Customer Service is...I mean, just wow! So if tomorrow, some guy exposes that your tap water contains large quantities of cyanyde, you'll blame the guy and discard his evidence just because you got a sweet deal on that tap water? Okeeey.

Secondly, I just don't get it how can any honest player be against anything related to combating cheating, be it a inefficient to non-existent anti cheating system, or a public campaign that promotes false security? Yes WBBCoop, if tomorrow i'd find out that Volvo (I own 2) totally knew for 3 years that their airbags won't deploy in case of an accident but choose to go high and mighty about its security with every occasion, I'd be "real freaking anxious" about it and thank the guy who exposed it not frown upon him and paint him as an un-professional loser.

Let's just agree to disagree here and thank you for not supporting nor helping me try to make this game a better one...baffling, to say the least, but speaks volumes We, in the industry, have a few names for that

[WBBCoop]

The devs are under Siege's hood changing things up on such a massive scale that it's not rational for me to expect perfection every time they close it. As players, we have the right to expectations that Siege runs and plays. Mine works fine, and just because others dont have the same conditions doesn't mean they dont have the same availability to them. Obviously someone living out in the middle of nowhere has to accept personal responsibility towards his own standards, but everyone else has the capability to enjoy it on an acceptable level.

If I felt that Ubi was doing nothing and was ignoring the whole situation then I'd say something. Until then, you could show me a hd clip of Epi himself blowing this guy off and I'd support him. I don't like manipulative people and especially if this someone intentionally defrauded the game. Not only is it sick and twisted, it should be illegal and even more so than cheating merely out of selfish rationality.

You go ahead with the program and yell from the rooftops how Ubi is a rotten company with horrible morals, grabbing your clips and witnesses readying to support your suppositions and depositions. But mind you, not one good person would ever support the way in which your argument was obtained. Nor would a good person ever allow themselves to be a part of such deviousness.

At this point, I'm calling your bluff. You got nothing other than someone prying into business they don't belong in. Just my opinion of course.

[Mike_the_Brave]

Well now WBBCoop, it didn' t take that long for your polish to come off.

Victimize much? I keep on laughing at your 2nd and 3rd paragraph - my oh my how far down the rabbit hole you are. Son, i've both had and encountered people like you in so many forums that i don't know which would be sadder, you being a "plant" or just a plain "zealot" (just my opinion of course).

Can you hear yourself? the youtuber "manipulated" and "intentionally defrauded" the game! and that is "sick and twisted, it should be illegal"! It's even worse than cheating! - no comment can encapsulate the sheer bonkerness of what you said.

That 3rd paragraph is complete insanity, i don't even know how to react to whatever logic or rationale you think you have...nor do I care to be honest. Show me a post where i advised or told people not to buy Ubisoft products and then how about we compare Uplay and Steam libraries. Or better yet, how about we avoid each other....your mentality is way too complex for my humble understanding and to me, your crusader-ish behavior reeks of toxicity. You live in a Fairy Land where each dev team is Epic, Blizzard or Rockstar having unlimited time and funds and that shows just how clueless you are regarding both how Ubisoft works as a company and how projects are funded. You think the dev team needs your "see no evil, hear no evil" attitude? I know dev and QA teams better than you ever will but i also know how a corporation works and how funds get allocated. I can bet you some of the Siege Dev and QA guys dream at night some of the issues that plague this game and curse the fact that their time frame and corporate direction steers their efforts elsewhere. It sticks with you, it haunts you, that one issue you can't replicate and if only players/clients demanded a fix more often, you'd get your extra allocated time to fix it and finally put your mind at ease. Yeah Coop, you can't even comprehend the level of respect i have for developers and QA teams everywhere, having expressed my appreciation of the Siege one in multiple occasions, but like all superficial forum dwellers, you can't know that, since you've never worked elbow to elbow with one nor seen the sheer genius and perfectionism that drives them. You just cuddle around until a game dies down then move on to the next to cuddle on that forum and feed on attention while bashing the previous game's failure.

You went off the rails Coop....hard....

This says it all "You got nothing other than someone prying into business they don't belong in"

[WBBCoop]

Well now WBBCoop, it didn' t take that long for your polish to come off

Oh come on..everything I said was genuine, from the heart, and with no ill feelings or ulterior motives.

I started watching the vid, but honestly I couldn't get far. I don't blame the young creator for trying to be different, it's just not my style I guess..but I trust that I got the thrust of it. All the same I can say for sure, 100%, that I do no t agree with what he did and I think he made a colossal mistake that he may never forget.

I'm giving you my honest opinion Mike, if you don't like it then ok with me. But the whole me going bonkers on ya is far from as batsh*t crazy as the first paragraph in this thread. It was condiscending, overly demanding (I loved the money where their mouth was part) and then this goofnut vid with someone that cant even brush his teeth correctly. Best of luck, but I'm still not happy about this sh*t tbph. And it's just my opinion, so don't let me get you wound up, I'm like this sometimes..but I still hold perfectly valid points beyond my psychobabble.

ps. have you ever listened to the Allen Parsons Project? It's great to chill to if you haven't.

[Zoro]

Thanks for holding some civility in this discussion — it's nice to see passionate debate that doesn't just devolve into put-downs and personal attacks.

To address the topic:

We've seen the Homeless video and discussions have been sparked and stoked, as most of you would probably have hoped.

I'm not sure if revealing the full process is something the team wants to do — Revealing more information about the process, while reassuring and informative for good players, would give even more information to those players who may be looking for ways to stay ahead of us and the process. Perhaps something a bit more shallow, like an overview, would be a good middle ground.

I have been sharing the sentiments you guys have been posting in the wake of the video and the recent apparent surge of cheaters, which the team have been reading and discussing.