Community question regarding "openers." | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

for me an opener is to open up a turtle and break his guard, kensei hilt bash, warden SB, WL Headbutt basically a unblockable push/shove etc not an attack just a move that opens them up for an attack. I think every hero should have a neutral opener not that guarantees damage just something to break the guard and allows the possibility of dmg.

I don't really agree with giving everyone an unblockable from neutral. Even if they didn't guarantee damage it still is bypassing blocking as a viable strat. You're not addressing the turtle problem that way. You're ignoring it.

[Knight_Raime]

I think we need a mod or a dev to come and explain what an opener is because then in that case no one is right because no one really knows.

I think the reason people don't see headbutt/kick from cent as openers is because it's a 1 dimensonal move that is just dodged. Dodged/blocked are considered the same thing in some discussions.

Yeah what he said. Gladiator punch, Shoulder bash, Hilt bash etc. Or an unblockable from neutral.

Shoulder bash confirms damage though. same with pommel strike. Glad is the only thing like what Stella was talking about. I still disagree about giving everyone one of those.

[Fairemont]

I don't really agree with giving everyone an unblockable from neutral. Even if they didn't guarantee damage it still is bypassing blocking as a viable strat. You're not addressing the turtle problem that way. You're ignoring it.

Agreed. Unblockable is not the only opener option.

[Knight_Raime]

I've studied a whole lot of Nobushi, from move charts, timings, combos, competitive for honor reddit rants about her and potential reworks and stuff. I've been putting a lot of what I've seen/learned into the Nobushi Buff thread floating about in general discussion.

Being able to hidden stance feint mid-combo is one thing that would make a huge difference to keeping her minimal combo-capability safe and add a huge mix-up to her, but also ensure that she doesn't get too powerful since it does cost a lot to use, especially if you use it in a combo. It would essentially cancel it and MAYBE give one more light poke or a sidewinder or something for that hard damage but leave her OOS or real close.

I was more referring to having hidden stance as a thing you can soft feint into combo. It still retaining everything you can do with it now. Though if that were a thing her stamina consumption on feint would have to go down. And her HS would have to be nerfed in some fashion. Maybe it finally gets brought in line with all other full blocks where you can't tech being GBed. Her combos need to be buffed as well. But more access to hidden stance in that fashion would let her be more aggressive. Which is her main problem at the moment.

As far as nobushi goes, she can light attack from out of range, unless you're on PC I can't see anyone parrying it. How is that not a safe attack? Even if it's blocked, you're still out of range to get attacked. Try again. I only played as her twice so correct me if I'm wrong, I did good and got 9-2 on my first game as her with just light attacks and heavy feinting.

I think oddly timed single lights are underestimated as an attack plan for turtles.

Range matters a lot less now. Many heros have her range. Even Shinobi can light as far as she can. I don't think anyone has her current reach of her back step light. But her normal lights? Absolutely. The only empty light technique she has is if someone tries to come in for a whiff punish then she can follow up with a delayed light from the opposite direction for double light bleed poke. But the timing/range is very strict on that and hard to do.

[Fairemont]

I was more referring to having hidden stance as a thing you can soft feint into combo. It still retaining everything you can do with it now. Though if that were a thing her stamina consumption on feint would have to go down. And her HS would have to be nerfed in some fashion. Maybe it finally gets brought in line with all other full blocks where you can't tech being GBed. Her combos need to be buffed as well. But more access to hidden stance in that fashion would let her be more aggressive. Which is her main problem at the moment.



Range matters a lot less now. Many heros have her range. Even Shinobi can light as far as she can. I don't think anyone has her current reach of her back step light. But her normal lights? Absolutely. The only empty light technique she has is if someone tries to come in for a whiff punish then she can follow up with a delayed light from the opposite direction for double light bleed poke. But the timing/range is very strict on that and hard to do.

Do you mean her hidden stance cancel feint into a combo? That is doable... sort of?

[Knight_Raime]

Do you mean her hidden stance cancel feint into a combo? That is doable... sort of?

Like lets say you were doing her triple light combo. Currently you can only hidden stance with the first light. What I want to see is that during her second and third light you can hidden stance. Essentially I want her to be able to hidden stance almost all if not all of her attacks (kick withstanding obviously) so she can break way from her combo structure to mix up and throw off the opponent. I'll link you a thread from the competitive subreddit for a rework for her.

I don't agree with everything they proposed. But they do a good job at identifying her issues and come up with a lot of changes i'd like to see: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...l_tweakrework/

[Fairemont]

Like lets say you were doing her triple light combo. Currently you can only hidden stance with the first light. What I want to see is that during her second and third light you can hidden stance. Essentially I want her to be able to hidden stance almost all if not all of her attacks (kick withstanding obviously) so she can break way from her combo structure to mix up and throw off the opponent. I'll link you a thread from the competitive subreddit for a rework for her.

I don't agree with everything they proposed. But they do a good job at identifying her issues and come up with a lot of changes i'd like to see: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...l_tweakrework/

That is what I was saying, yes.

I would not mind seeing her generic combos feintable all the way through.

[Knight_Raime]

That is what I was saying, yes.

I would not mind seeing her generic combos feintable all the way through.

Ah alright. My bad on the misunderstanding on your first reply to me then.

[Fairemont]

Perhaps!

I would love seeing her light dodge attack become a bit more relevant. Not sure how it would work, but perhaps being able to launch it out of hidden stance with a different timing than her traditional light would make a difference. Give her that bit of a mix-up.

[The_B0G_]

@Knight_Raime Same range between Shinobi and Nobushi lights? I wouldn't have thought. I never have an issue with Shinobi, but Nobushi always gives me issues closing in to an effective range to land a hit. I usually have to dodge or block at least 2 hits before I close.