Community question regarding "openers." | Forums

[DrinkinMyStella]

Warlord headbutt is not an opener. A passive player will dodge it, which will get you guard broken.

I'd say crashing charge mix up is more of an opener, because it can provoke a reaction. Cool cucumbers don't react in panic though, so it's not always that useful.

then nothing is an opener because everything can be dodged (except for undodgeable attacks obviously), cents kick can be dodged and can get a free GB but thats an opener. an opener is the potential breaking of a turtle they can still dodge etc but its better than not having an opener

[bananaflow2017]

then nothing is an opener because everything can be dodged (except for undodgeable attacks obviously), cents kick can be dodged and can get a free GB but thats an opener. an opener is the potential breaking of a turtle they can still dodge etc but its better than not having an opener

Most of this skills are really no openers, because they usually grant a light or get punished with a gb.
But some of them are a little better. For example the highlander 50/50 or kensei soft feint. They force you to do something and in the case of hl even got a tool to counter the only viable reaction to it. It also grants a heavy instead of a light, so its really worth trying...

[DrinkinMyStella]

Most of this skills are really no openers, because they usually grant a light or get punished with a gb.
But some of them are a little better. For example the highlander 50/50 or kensei soft feint. They force you to do something and in the case of hl even got a tool to counter the only viable reaction to it. It also grants a heavy instead of a light, so its really worth trying...

I think we need a mod or a dev to come and explain what an opener is because then in that case no one is right because no one really knows.

[PDXGorechild]

for me an opener is to open up a turtle and break his guard, kensei hilt bash, warden SB, WL Headbutt basically a unblockable push/shove etc not an attack just a move that opens them up for an attack. I think every hero should have a neutral opener not that guarantees damage just something to break the guard and allows the possibility of dmg.

Yeah what he said. Gladiator punch, Shoulder bash, Hilt bash etc. Or an unblockable from neutral.

[BTTrinity]

for me an opener is to open up a turtle and break his guard, kensei hilt bash, warden SB, WL Headbutt basically a unblockable push/shove etc not an attack just a move that opens them up for an attack. I think every hero should have a neutral opener not that guarantees damage just something to break the guard and allows the possibility of dmg.

Same

Warlord headbutt is not an opener. A passive player will dodge it, which will get you guard broken.

I'd say crashing charge mix up is more of an opener, because it can provoke a reaction. Cool cucumbers don't react in panic though, so it's not always that useful.

Funny, because I see most players... Even top tier players get caught by headbutt more often than not, as long as Warlord isnt spamming it.

[Tyrjo]

Same



Funny, because I see most players... Even top tier players get caught by headbutt more often than not, as long as Warlord isnt spamming it.

Getting caught by a headbutt of course happens, if you mix it into other attacks and/or feints. But if an opener is something that is supposed to crack open a turtle, headbutt is not your go to move to inititate with, at least not if your opponent is super defensive. If a missed headbutt didn't grant your opponent a GB, it would be an opener. It's like saying the Gladiator toe stab is an opener.

[DrinkinMyStella]

Getting caught by a headbutt of course happens, if you mix it into other attacks and/or feints. But if an opener is something that is supposed to crack open a turtle, headbutt is not your go to move to inititate with, at least not if your opponent is super defensive. If a missed headbutt didn't grant your opponent a GB, it would be an opener. It's like saying the Gladiator toe stab is an opener.

when using WL his headbutt is his opener it forces a dodge or a turtle to move or break guard, I know what your saying and WL doesn't have a true opener but thats still considered an opener. Glads toe stab is an opener because if someone's play defensive then that will cause them break guard or get hit and most openers if dodged will get a free GB but they are still considered an opener.

[The_B0G_]

Warlord headbutt is not an opener. A passive player will dodge it, which will get you guard broken.

I'd say crashing charge mix up is more of an opener, because it can provoke a reaction. Cool cucumbers don't react in panic though, so it's not always that useful.

If you don't spam headbutts, WL's headbutt works a lot more often then you would think.

[Fairemont]

This is more in line with my opinion. An opener imo is something that isn't easily defended against. Like rochi's unreactable 400ms in combo lights. The rest of his kit is built to let him use those very often. Meaning it's pretty difficult to just block everything from him. with Bushi she needs a lot tbh. She needs more access to hidden stance (like being able to use it mid combo from a soft feint or something,) faster in combo and neutral lights, etc.

I've studied a whole lot of Nobushi, from move charts, timings, combos, competitive for honor reddit rants about her and potential reworks and stuff. I've been putting a lot of what I've seen/learned into the Nobushi Buff thread floating about in general discussion.

Being able to hidden stance feint mid-combo is one thing that would make a huge difference to keeping her minimal combo-capability safe and add a huge mix-up to her, but also ensure that she doesn't get too powerful since it does cost a lot to use, especially if you use it in a combo. It would essentially cancel it and MAYBE give one more light poke or a sidewinder or something for that hard damage but leave her OOS or real close.

[The_B0G_]

I've studied a whole lot of Nobushi, from move charts, timings, combos, competitive for honor reddit rants about her and potential reworks and stuff. I've been putting a lot of what I've seen/learned into the Nobushi Buff thread floating about in general discussion.

Being able to hidden stance feint mid-combo is one thing that would make a huge difference to keeping her minimal combo-capability safe and add a huge mix-up to her, but also ensure that she doesn't get too powerful since it does cost a lot to use, especially if you use it in a combo. It would essentially cancel it and MAYBE give one more light poke or a sidewinder or something for that hard damage but leave her OOS or real close.

As far as nobushi goes, she can light attack from out of range, unless you're on PC I can't see anyone parrying it. How is that not a safe attack? Even if it's blocked, you're still out of range to get attacked. Try again. I only played as her twice so correct me if I'm wrong, I did good and got 9-2 on my first game as her with just light attacks and heavy feinting.

I think oddly timed single lights are underestimated as an attack plan for turtles.