Community question regarding "openers." | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

A simple question. What do you consider to be an opener? I ask because everyone seems to think all heros should have an opener. And that's usually referred to as an easy access unblockable from neutral. For which i'm against. But I don't think i've ever seen anyone try to explain what they want as an opener. So please tell me what you think one is?

[PepsiBeastin]

I see it as anything that forces a defensive reaction (besides normal blocking I guess), or at the very least forces your opponent to move and stay on their feet. I with movement was a larger part of this game but tracking doesn't allow that.

[Knight_Raime]

I see it as anything that forces a defensive reaction (besides normal blocking I guess), or at the very least forces your opponent to move and stay on their feet. I with movement was a larger part of this game but tracking doesn't allow that.

So would you consider Orochi's tri-directional 400ms lights to be openers? Or what about his Storm rush?

[PepsiBeastin]

So would you consider Orochi's tri-directional 400ms lights to be openers? Or what about his Storm rush?

His only lights that are 400 are comboed so they are definitely not openers, and storm rush is more of a trick move than an opener. I agree with the sentiment that the indicators should be shown a bit before they are now.

[Knight_Raime]

His only lights that are 400 are comboed so they are definitely not openers, and storm rush is more of a trick move than an opener. I agree with the sentiment that the indicators should be shown a bit before they are now.

I consider them to be openers because they are not easily defended against by anyone and it's not hard to get to them. I don't think it's a requirement to have to come from neutral to be an opener. If storm rush can't be regularly dealt with by blocking or parrying then how is it not an opener? The hiding of the indicators is what makes it usable.

[BlowHard74728]

Am I the only one that feels orchi's reworked storm rush isn't any better than his original? It seems rather easy to knock him out of it before he actually reaches me. I have yet to come across one that plays a whole lot of mind games with storm rush so that could very well be the reasoning.

Im just thankful he doesnt have HA on it or my *** would be destroyed.

When I hear openers I tend to think of moves or counter moves that allow the hero to go into a combo. For instance when Beserker parries an attack (light or heavy) he can hit the opponent with a light from any direction or a heavy from the side. Giving him the opportunity to move into his common infinite combo (light, heavy, light, etc.)

But I understand people believe them to be attacks that forces the opponent to react another way then just blocking which makes more sense

Such as Raider's zone from neutral, wardens shoulder bash (along with conqueror) and shaman's tackle/bump (cant remember the name)

[Fairemont]

I'd like to think an opener is anything that forces an opponent to think about their defense. It does not need to be guaranteed or a perfect 50/50 or anything like that, but a character should have at least one or two methods of prompting a foe to consider how to react. Could be feints, could be unblockables, undodgeables, or just plain fast moves with animations that make them tricky to read. Most characters have them in some capacity. However, what hurts those openers on some of the characters that people say don't have any is that they have only one option, and thus that opener becomes less effective.


Heroes should have at least two methods of approaching their offense from a neutral standpoint, or in the case of heroes like Nobushi, have something that allows them to turn someone's offense against them.

[Knight_Raime]

Am I the only one that feels orchi's reworked storm rush isn't any better than his original? It seems rather easy to knock him out of it before he actually reaches me. I have yet to come across one that plays a whole lot of mind games with storm rush so that could very well be the reasoning.

Im just thankful he doesnt have HA on it or my *** would be destroyed.

When I hear openers I tend to think of moves or counter moves that allow the hero to go into a combo. For instance when Beserker parries an attack (light or heavy) he can hit the opponent with a light from any direction or a heavy from the side. Giving him the opportunity to move into his common infinite combo (light, heavy, light, etc.)

But I understand people believe them to be attacks that forces the opponent to react another way then just blocking which makes more sense

Such as Raider's zone from neutral, wardens shoulder bash (along with conqueror) and shaman's tackle/bump (cant remember the name)

For me I've yet to come across someone who can consistently deal with storm rush. It's pretty easy to bait people into trying to attack it for a free deflect or a free GB. Yeah my issue with giving everyone an unblockable opener is that it negates defensive play entirely.

I'd like to think an opener is anything that forces an opponent to think about their defense. It does not need to be guaranteed or a perfect 50/50 or anything like that, but a character should have at least one or two methods of prompting a foe to consider how to react. Could be feints, could be unblockables, undodgeables, or just plain fast moves with animations that make them tricky to read. Most characters have them in some capacity. However, what hurts those openers on some of the characters that people say don't have any is that they have only one option, and thus that opener becomes less effective.


Heroes should have at least two methods of approaching their offense from a neutral standpoint, or in the case of heroes like Nobushi, have something that allows them to turn someone's offense against them.

This is more in line with my opinion. An opener imo is something that isn't easily defended against. Like rochi's unreactable 400ms in combo lights. The rest of his kit is built to let him use those very often. Meaning it's pretty difficult to just block everything from him. with Bushi she needs a lot tbh. She needs more access to hidden stance (like being able to use it mid combo from a soft feint or something,) faster in combo and neutral lights, etc.

[DrinkinMyStella]

for me an opener is to open up a turtle and break his guard, kensei hilt bash, warden SB, WL Headbutt basically a unblockable push/shove etc not an attack just a move that opens them up for an attack. I think every hero should have a neutral opener not that guarantees damage just something to break the guard and allows the possibility of dmg.

[Tyrjo]

Warlord headbutt is not an opener. A passive player will dodge it, which will get you guard broken.

I'd say crashing charge mix up is more of an opener, because it can provoke a reaction. Cool cucumbers don't react in panic though, so it's not always that useful.