Member
Hello,
I've said it in past post plenty of times. I am an Orochi since Beta and i hate what they did to him. I had been waiting since S1 for him to be fixed and felt like the call was finally heard however I was wrong i truly feel as if they do not want this character to be a threat or to succeed. It its characters like the Orochi that lack the most when it comes to team fights and opening up turtles due to the lack of an opener. I feel strongly towards the idea of all heros having an opener and reflex guard.
It would make sense that you wouldn't be able to keep a guard of on one side and receive multiple blows while continuing to have no consequence due to muscle exhaustion. Also its absolutely ridiculous to think that these elite heres wouldn't be able to punch or kick to open someone up. To limit this ability to only a few characters is inexcusable and insulting to our warrior ancestors.
Give all characters reflex guard (or take it out the game and give all characters the same guard) and give characters a viable opener.
I have mixed feelings towards reflex guard I feel like i the Orochi it affects my Parrying, I seem to miss more on characters with reflex guard than ones that don't.
Also is it just me or do some characters (like the Orochi) have shorter cancel windows for feinting. This would seem so, meaning they have to choose whether or not they want to cancel sooner into the animation before the attack ajust goes. I noticed for me this get me parried a lot on my Roch I will try and fiend to open a turtle, hitting the cancel button right after I throw the heavy and instead of the attack canceling, it just flies. This can also play a part for turtles making it easier for them to decide if your feint is an actual threat or not. I think all characters should be allowed the same window to cancel an attack that way one persons cancel is not quicker than another.
Senior Member
I do believe that they have to make more incentive for people to want to parry rather than block but I don't know even what would work, maybe when OOS if you block an attack it drains your stamina back a little forcing you to retreat or parry but I fear that everything ubi try to do will make them a target of abuse from someone who doesn't get it or cant hack it. you have the average players and the the pro players and lets say 90% are average therefore their reactions will not be as good as the 10% of pro players; the game has to accommodate the masses rather than a small % of players. if the game gets any quicker or require me to have even faster reactions then i'm afraid i'll have to leave FH because my Brain won't be able to keep up, already I can get overwhelmed with the pace of the game and the feinting and i'm sure lots others will leave too if it gets to the point where the pace is too fast especially on console like myself. The current state of the game I feel is better than it's ever been (not balancing issues, just mechanics).
Senior Member
I'm an advocate for chip damage, personally. Right now, if I throw a Warden top heavy, it's 40 damage. Or like 8 if you block it. Which would you rather risk?
Now if that attack chipped for, say, 18 instead, that's suddenly something they can't afford to take five or six of over the course of a round. Just two of those blocked amounts to more damage that just straight eating a side heavy. Turtling is so effective and widely used because there are only a few counters from a few heroes that even work to stop that. In many match-ups, stamina management isn't even a thing, because they can't touch you if you just block while you recover.
Right now, it it's not Unblockable or a Bash, you can just ignore it and block. If it's a Light, you can opt to try parrying it, since most can't feint it into something else. Warden gets especially difficult against skilled players. The people that consistently parry your Lights, completely ignore your Heavies, and will just roll out of your Shoulder-bash mixup. Even if you can catch them in the latter, it is an incredibly boring match of you fishing for parries yourself and spamming bashes while they refuse to do anything but poke and prod at you for half an hour.
Member
Game should be all about heavies honestly, reward for throwing them out there.
My big problem with the punishing system behind feinting is that if you go for a parry and you realize it's a bait, you can easily feint your own parry attempt so you aren't punished in going for a parry.
That's the big issue with the whole parry system right now. Some characters can feint a heavy to bait and get no punish for the heavy bait because their options after aren't suffice enough.
What's the general rule of thumb of punishing an opponent going for a parry attempt?
Feint>>>GB?
Then you have characters like Aramusha, Centurion, Gladiator, Conqueror that have heavies that you can't bait into a GB because they have quick invulnerable non gb'able heavies that punish you going for that option.
If the Heavy changes were to happen I feel these characters might be the meta for the simple fact you can't punish them going for a parry.
There's times where I avoid all 3 scenarios as Aramusha. They go for an attack, I attempt parry, they GB, I cancel my heavy and they actually bounce off me like I was still attempting to follow through with my attack... Same for if they tried to just bait my heavy so they can parry... They still wouldn't be able to punish me.
It's not meta right now because Heavies aren't optimal in throwing out in high levels of play. The timing of the heavy can be thrown to avoid both the attempted parry bait and GB punish at the same time giving your character no opening to be exposed...
I'll keep advocating this... The game needs more universal balance changes. Back dodge change is a good start... Needs more
EDIT:
I forgot to mention, Universal changes have only helped this game...
First it was the univeral block cursor change, some characters were slower to block then others until they decided to change it to where everybody would be created equally in terms of having the same speed of block.
Next was the parry into Guard break change... Another universal change that was happily accepted to make the game play experience better.
Next was the back dodge change, which was amazing in keeping the gameplay experience at a better pace...
There's more but I only prefer mentioning the biggest changes for better experience in any game mode.
More universal changes that would make gameplay better...
Heavies on block, increased reward for the attacker.
Everybody has the same heavy feint start up and ability to be GB'd.
Universal stamina changes, if you are out of stamina, you don't further lose stamina for being hit by a stamina drain unblockable, it only pauses your stamina for a slight moment... same scenario if you get thrown... pretty much anything that drains your stamina would only pause it while in the out of stamina state. double the chip damage while out of stamina. This way ALL characters will be a threat when they have their opponent out of stamina. Give shugoki stamina pausing heavies because he's shugoki. Him being a special case... He's throwing a treelog at you... Not blocking normally... better move out the way lol
All Assassins have the same block, I feel like assassins should potentially be the best 1v1 fighters but also the hardest to use in the game in terms of defense. Every assassin should have gladiators defense timing.
More reward for cornering your opponent near a wall. so for people that like to wall camp. "shugoki, Centurion." If they go for gb and you counter it, the wall should be a hazard the same way as if they were spikes or a ledge. ONLY for the GB counter. This would make being cornered extremely bad and reward for the player that was able to push them there.
if you gb counter or go for a gb and they counter, it should be reset back to neutral. The constant gb,gb,gb,gb, after countering multiple times is bad to look at... And the person going for the GB and being countered is the only one that should be stumbling backwards back into neutral or into a wall.
Give Centurion his throw into kick confirmed combo, kinda lame how if you throw and immediately kick, they can dodge... While characters like Conqueror/Shaman get free follow ups into their unblockables after a throw.
Senior Member
Honestly, I know an easy way to fix that - Require feints be buffered, not reacted. For keyboard/mouse, you press E after a heavy to feint it. Instead, you now have to hold E during the heavy to feint it. You're committed to a feint from the first frame, instead of being able to option select it last second because you realized you got baited. Just like OOS parries, you wouldn't be able to withdraw them. If you don't have E held before you start the heavy, you can't feint it and it will follow through.
This would also help fix the issue of wanting to feint, but not hitting E quickly enough during your heavy and having it fly when you didn't want it to. Now if only'd we could get a specific button for zone-attacks.
Member
Stamina universal change.
They want it to be more of a hazard. Out of stamina=death... But not every character can take advantage of that scenario. Highlander, Conqueror just a cut above the rest of the roster in terms of punishing you while out of stamina...
The change I think would be fair is universally making it to where EVERYBODY is a threat out of stamina and for the characters LACKING unblockables to get a reaction out of the opponent, I would make this change...
lights and heavies cause stamina pausing and create double chip damage.
Unblockables no longer cause either stamina drain or stamina pause.
Your blocking is slowed down immensely, referring back to pre patch lawbringer cursor block reactions.
Blocking a heavy will kill you if you block while out of stamina.
If you switch directions on blocking you can't immediately dodge. Balance the timing around to if they try and feint into a quick unblockable like Gladiator toe stab, you attempt to block his heavy then he cancels into toe stab, you have time to react to both scenarios and dodge.
The balance.....
If you parry any sort of attack while out of stamina you immediately regain all of your stamina back. Which makes having unblockables still a "Safe." option but no longer the spamming option if somebody is out of stamina because reward for attacking somebody out of stamina is too great to pass up.
If you are guard broken and thrown to the ground it pauses your stamina until you get back up.
If they block your heavy it pauses their stamina for longer. if they block your light the stamina pause isn't as long.
Shugoki's lights count as if they were heavies so pausing would be universally the same with him like he's only throwing heavies... "I'm always trying to give shugoki love and I'm a rep 0." lmao
EDIT:
Gladiator, I would take away his zone cancel. and with the universal changes for the out of stamina. he'd be so much better for he could mix up his parry/punch and follow up with heavy. Gladiator would actually be so much fun with these universal changes for out of stamina...
His punches would mean more in neutral for getting opponents out of stamina because of his true mix up intensive attacks and when he has you shuffling with your cursor, he could land toe stab "out of stamina" version and keep the pressure up.
and for EVERY character with a built in punch/daze as part of their parry. They will WANT to do it because draining somebodies stamina will be the meta because of the insane pressure you could get off it. Again, balance is if you parry stamina comes back fully. and the person you just parried might just be out of stamina now because he kept trying to put pressure on you and when you return that same attack you might be parried out of stamina as well so it creates this crazy all out attack mind games.
EDIT AGAIN...
Think about the gear stats and how you would build your character around the changes...
Would you want Defense penetration or block damage?
Would you want stamina reduction or Regen?
More people would just go balanced in that scenario and + everything.
Senior Member
Not gonna lie, I actually don’t mind the sound of those changes Renegade. One thing I’m confused on is “Blocking a heavy will kill you if you block while out of stamina”
Does this mean even if you are OOS while full health one heavy will kill you? Or if you are on your last bar, half health it’ll kill ya? Personally I reckon that’s a bit much
Member
Member
Keep laughing, becaus this thread isnt for people like you. Its not about one or 2 turtle char. and beating turtles . But bigmouthes should come around and give their shots without being serious and factual. ( ANY TIME U WANT IF U R ON PC , u can add me and we try to beat turtles and we see how u can beat turtles in june 2018 )Originally Posted by MuscleTech12018 Go to original postI laugh so hard when i see people that in june 2018 after all the changes still cry because they cannot beat "turtle" chars)))
Thank you, made my day.
