Member
Hi there, my idea to rework warden is about 2 stances similar to Highlander.
1st stance - normal stance like now maybe with some minor changes. Maybe not able to feint shoulderbash to GB.
If PC player press C button, it takes like 1 second to get to 2nd stance. So player is able to change start fight, during wall splat, during "enemy booring me" or even during fight but with risk to unable to DEF or CGB.
2nd stance - Half sword technique
- Light attack - (if we take warden is right-handed) right and top is stab, left is hilt attack. Cause of staff like wielding sword regular block dont stop combo.
- Heavy attack - able to perform only in chain, 2 hands on blade, hits enemy with hilt. Stun enemy.
- Opener - After parry perform some kind of throw enemy to behind (OOS enemy fall to ground)
Combos
- L, L, L
- L, L, H
- L, H, L
- L, H, H(unblocable)
- Opener, L (guaranteed, can start combo)
- Opener, H (unblocable)
Maybe this is not 100%, but I love to see Warden to use half swording technique.
Thx for ur opinion.
Senior Member
What exactly does this do that the default stance didn't? Highlander's stance gave him grabs, kicks, and unblockables. This just seems like an animation change, at best.
I wouldn't mind seeing Hyper-armour on the second chain-Heavies, and for Heavies to chain into Lights. An Unblockable on a top-Heavies after a Crushing Counter could be nice. Having Lights chain more, too. There's a lot that could be done to give Wardens more tools than just bash-spamming.
- I noticed the Heavy opener is Unblockable. The lack of the K had my eyes filtering it out. Can it be feinted, though?
Member
I try to do something else then copy Highlanders moves so...
Ok, I will try to write it easier.
Half swording technique gives to warden
- Non stop lights combo by blocking (can continue his combo)
- Afterparry move (like Centurions) with guaranteed light to combo and with OOS fall to ground
- Give 1 unblocable attack in chain
- Another posible playstyle
As I say, this is not complete for sure, but its an idea.
Senior Member
I like the half-swording idea, though. Instead of a stance, though, why not just moves expanding on what he has? Like Crushing Counter, let lights counter-strike side attacks too. Instead of 40 damage, you pommel-strike the blow aside, then whip inward and crack them across the face. Stunning tap, drains stamina, bit of damage. Chains into heavy or lights in any direction. Gives you a follow-up, puts pressure on them. Bit of a question as to why you'd do that instead of just take a light parry into top heavy, though. Maybe a knock-down if they become OOS when hit?
Maybe the Heavy chain after could have Hyper-armour, to punish blind attempts to retaliate.
Member
Senior Member
Warden is pretty fine as is. He just lacks tools. What he does have is pretty solid, he just doesn't have a lot of what he has. He has the bash mix-up, and that's really it. Crushing counter into bash into Double Light is our best OOS combo at 64 damage. It's nice, but most people generally deny you it by not throwing tops at you willy nilly. Meanwhile, you have Kenseis with dodge-Heavies, soft-feint bash mixups, unblockables, hyper-armour... I know Warden is meant to be straight-forward, but so is Raider, and he has more than we do right now.
Senior Member
The idea of the hero updates is to make them perform better. To put that another way, the idea is to make the hero do what they already do, but do it more effectively.
This idea, while kind of neat on its own, is definitely not that. You're basically asking to scrub the Warden from the game and replace it with a Highlander hybrid. And frankly, as someone who mains Warden, that sounds extremely unappealing. The Warden rework needs to focus on further developing the tools the Warden already has, i.e. counter strike, shoulder bash, baiting, and feint mix ups.
Member
Id rather see him get additions to his move set rather then see him adopt someone else's move set First id like to say i don't consider this a rework more so additions to his already existing tool kit, because while i feel like the warden is lacking compared to other character's tool kits in season six as far as unblockable's mix ups and opener's, I don't feel a complete overhaul on his move set is needed, so without further ado here are my suggestion's for the warden.
1. An unblockable attack from shoulder bash it would work something like this, while your charging your shoulder bash if you to hit RT to throw a heavy it will activate an unblockable similar to Apollyons unblockable in the test your Metal event, Throwable only from the left or right guard stance
2. You can faint a heavy into shoulder bash so when your winding up a heavy if you hit GB it will activate shoulder bash.
3. Make his side light's faster by say 50ms or so to make them more viable as opener's alone.
4. A forth heavy string to wardens wrath combo.
Community Staff
Hey folks,
Cheers for the ideas! Really cool to see all of this discussion in such detail!
Lots of creative ideas in this thread, and I'll forward them on to the team. One thing I will say though is that generally, we try to stray away from completely altering the core style of the character, and adopting another characters playstyle (such as Highlander) would remove the uniqueness of the Highlander itself.
Keep it up guys, I'll be watching!
Regards,
Jim.
Senior Member
JimOriginally Posted by Ubi-Jimothy Go to original post
A few suggestions I'd like to throw your way in case you missed them the last time: the utility of Warden's charged shoulder bash really needs to be looked at. The charge time itself makes the move unsafe in 99% of situations (I've tested quite rigorously in the arena and found it to be guaranteed against only a handful of moves, and with the exception of Caber Toss it's a large risk to attempt it because of feints into guard break).
The hyper armour on charged bash needs to start up a lot sooner to protect you while you charge (this would give the Warden some trading potential against heavy attacks), alternatively charged bashes need to be feintable again. In its current state, charged bash is basically a dead move outside of vortex mind games.
I would also recommend looking at including hyper armour on an uncharged bash to give the Warden a reliable counter attack. Typically when you go against assassins their lights knock you out of your bash, and this is an issue because side dodge into bash is the Warden's only counter attack outside of actually parrying (it's also your only opener). A great example of this is when you dodge a Shinobi's kick (which can't be parried anyway) or heavy, they can follow up and knock you out of your counter bash...this denies the Warden a counter option. It's quite frustrating. If we look at the other vanguards, they both have counter attacks--by counter attack I mean an attack you use after a successful dodge--(swift strike and stunning tap / guard break) are much safer and more reliable particularly against assassins, and both Kensei's swift strike and Raider's guard break can lead to executions.
I would also propose removing the vulnerability frames on crushing counter start-up. It makes it very frustrating to use when fighting competent players; no one competent lets a top heavy fly against a Warden (unless it's unblockable), and, again, experienced players do not throw top lights at a Warden from neutral, it only happens in a combo, in which cases only a regular parry is consistently reliable; if you try to counter strike, often the light attack will slip into that 100 ms warm-up and you'll eat damage instead of counter striking. In the vast majority of scenarios using a regular parry is a better option. I shouldn't feel disadvantaged by using my hero's special defense move.
