"kensei doesn't have a better dodge attack than assassins" | Forums

[Arekonator]

If you complain about the slowest dodge attack in the game, your opinion is invalid. simple as that.

[Siegfried-Z]

If raider can get by without dodge heavies kensei will be just fine

First, Raider has a dodge whith choice between GB or Stun .. (just have to be used with the timing)
Second, do you really compare Raider and Kensei on a static fight ? Raider stun feint is far faster than any Kensei feint and Raider can start Unblocable from nothing or after every single hit what Kensei can't do..

To finish, without Dash, Kensei unblocable could only come as a Third hit () or after a GB + Stun.... so it would be useless.

He is fine like that.

[D3dicatedSrv3rz]

You dodged the last shoulder way too early. Thats why you got hit. No other reason.

Watch the video while its buffering. You get baited by him running towards you. Youre not reacting to the bash.

Though this may be true would this have ever happened to a kensei

[Vakris_One]

If raider can get by without dodge heavies kensei will be just fine

Raider has dodge GB. Kensei has dodge heavy and Warden has dodge shoulder bash. This isn't directed at you but I honestly wonder why there are still people who complain about how Kensei's vanguard trait should be removed when the dash > vanguard option is a thing that all 3 Vanguards have.

All 3 of them have always had their intended purposes but it's very interesting how the Kensei only started getting hate about it after his rework. People seemed to be perfectly okay with Kensei when he was trash tier. It speaks volumes about a certain mentality in the community.

Though this may be true would this have ever happened to a kensei

It's possible if the Kensei launches it early and gets caught right at the startup but obviously he gets more leeway because he can delay the strike.

[KitingFatKidsEZ]

This whole thread is so alien.
Look at me missplaying with Orochi. Btw please nerf Kensei because of that. Like wut?
At least show the same thing with Kensei side by side if youre trying to make a point.

Out of all playable characters Kensei has the least cheese. No easy pressure. ****ty feats. Atrocious running speed. Ultra slow attacks. Hes so simple to play against. His dash has ****ty startup is super easy to grab and has long recovery.

Like did you all die to an army of Kenseis who just spam dodge attacks all the time while you full commit to heavies every time you recover? wtf is going on?

[ChampionRuby50g]

Thanks to judge so fast.

I am rep 18 Kensei with a K/D (not KAD) ratio of 2 so i believe i am good with.

But, he is strong because ur opponent has to be carefull while attacking u if he don't want to be punished with Dash.

If Kensei would not have this, he would be too static and with what ? a good zone and a feint on top heavy which takes 1sec ..? Comon' .. Kensei is good now because of each elements of his kit.

You’re welcome.

You may be good with Kensei with a decent K/D, but my point was if you truly believe that removing his dash attack would make him the worst hero in the game (which is exactly what you are implying when you said “he is as free kill as minions”) you mustn’t have a good understanding of the game. Of course he wouldn’t be as good as he is now, but by no means would he drop to the worst hero. He would still remain in the top % of heroes. Like you said, Kensei is good because of each kit element he has. You’re also implying that the dash attack is now the only thing that keeps him good with your last statement. Remove the dash attack, he still has a good kit. I believe the dash attack needs to be toned down. IMO Vanguards shouldn’t even have a dash attack at all. The range Kensei has on his, with the apparent ability to delay it is crazy and makes it better than many of the assassins, which shouldn’t be the case. Assassins shouldn’t be outclassed in dash attacks, that’s their thing.

[Arekonator]

All the vanguards had dash attack in some form since the begining. Furthermore, they all have dash attack that goes with the theme of their kit. But after kensei gets a rework (while his dash attack gets only minimal changes) its suddenly an issue?
Some people in this thread believing you can just spam it and get easy 1v3 win, just what? Every mediocre player with at least two working braincells will tear you apart if you resort to that.

[D3dicatedSrv3rz]

First, Raider has a dodge whith choice between GB or Stun .. (just have to be used with the timing)
Second, do you really compare Raider and Kensei on a static fight ? Raider stun feint is far faster than any Kensei feint and Raider can start Unblocable from nothing or after every single hit what Kensei can't do..

To finish, without Dash, Kensei unblocable could only come as a Third hit () or after a GB + Stun.... so it would be useless.

He is fine like that.

I do very easily compare raider to kensei in a fight. The timing of raider's 2 dodge mechanic options is locked, kensei's heavy isn't. Kensei has hyper armor to tank 2 things his counterparts lack. and range to catch retreating opponents. From top heavies he has a plethora of options: let fly, GB/pommel, side light, side heavy and dodge (WTF). Only feints raider has is the stunning tap from heavies and and his UB, There is no situation i see a raider of the same skill of the kensei he is fighting consistently taking taking the win as often as said kensei. True raider may be a bit faster but kensei has literally everything else: HA, plethora of soft feints, a UB that may be limited to a finisher but doesnt cost half a bar of stamina, and the best dodge in the game due to the distance kensei travels and his superior block dodge mechanic

[D3dicatedSrv3rz]

All the vanguards had dash attack in some form since the begining. Furthermore, they all have dash attack that goes with the theme of their kit. But after kensei gets a rework (while his dash attack gets only minimal changes) its suddenly an issue?
Some people in this thread believing you can just spam it and get easy 1v3 win, just what? Every mediocre player with at least two working braincells will tear you apart if you resort to that.

The problem many of us have is the fact that his dash attack dodges so much better than even the assassins and can be delayed for some dumb reason. The window in a dodge attack when a kensei is safe (discounting Kensei's superior block mechanic) is larger that most heroes if not all either bc the animation is the longest or bc of the absurd distance he travels in the dodge

[Vakris_One]

You’re welcome.

You may be good with Kensei with a decent K/D, but my point was if you truly believe that removing his dash attack would make him the worst hero in the game (which is exactly what you are implying when you said “he is as free kill as minions”) you mustn’t have a good understanding of the game. Of course he wouldn’t be as good as he is now, but by no means would he drop to the worst hero. He would still remain in the top % of heroes. Like you said, Kensei is good because of each kit element he has. You’re also implying that the dash attack is now the only thing that keeps him good with your last statement. Remove the dash attack, he still has a good kit. I believe the dash attack needs to be toned down. IMO Vanguards shouldn’t even have a dash attack at all. The range Kensei has on his, with the apparent ability to delay it is crazy and makes it better than many of the assassins, which shouldn’t be the case. Assassins shouldn’t be outclassed in dash attacks, that’s their thing.

So you propose we get rid of the Vanguard's dash attacks? Two of whom rely specifically on their dash attack to allow them to get into their mixups and mind games - Warden and Kensei - and the third, Raider, who relies on his dash guardbreak to initiate his most potent punish as a counter attack. How will you compensate these 3 heroes if you intend on taking away such a core piece of their kit?

I do very easily compare raider to kensei in a fight. The timing of raider's 2 dodge mechanic options is locked, kensei's heavy isn't. Kensei has hyper armor to tank 2 things his counterparts lack. and range to catch retreating opponents. From top heavies he has a plethora of options: let fly, GB/pommel, side light, side heavy and dodge (WTF). Only feints raider has is the stunning tap from heavies and and his UB, There is no situation i see a raider of the same skill of the kensei he is fighting consistently taking taking the win as often as said kensei. True raider may be a bit faster but kensei has literally everything else: HA, plethora of soft feints, a UB that may be limited to a finisher but doesnt cost half a bar of stamina, and the best dodge in the game due to the distance kensei travels and his superior block dodge mechanic

Kensei has been reworked whereas Raider has not. Before the rework they used to be more on par but with Raider actually being the stronger character. To truly compare them again you would need to wait and see where Raider is after his own rework.

The problem many of us have is the fact that his dash attack dodges so much better than even the assassins and can be delayed for some dumb reason. The window in a dodge attack when a kensei is safe (discounting Kensei's superior block mechanic) is larger that most heroes if not all either bc the animation is the longest or bc of the absurd distance he travels in the dodge

What do you propose to be done about this?