Defense Overhaul | Forums

[Camemberto]

The suggestions won't make much sense on their own, but put together, I think they would improve the game a lot.

In no particular order, but numbered for better quotability:
1. No superior block on light attacks -> Chains would continue
2. Slow down light attacks, to make them more reactable /blockable again
3. Light parry only guarantees light attack
4. Chip damage on all blocked heavy attacks (25% maybe?)
5. Heavy parry guarantees nothing, but negates damage, stops chains and gives you the chance to attack first
6. No softfeints on unblockables, only cancels
7. GB only guarantees light attack
8. less hitstagger/stun
9. speed up/shorten the parry animations to make the fight more fluent
EDIT: 10: parrying unblockables still guarantees light

I think this would work, because it should put a hold to most of the "metas" in the game, which are:
- Turteling (fishing for parries):
Will be less effective, because parries are less rewarding
- Light spam:
Will be less effective, because lights would be slower/blockable, but still not useless, because chains will continue when blocked, allowing you to put more pressure on the opponent + parries are less punishing
- Unblockable spam:
Can only be hard feinted, so cheesy softfeint mixups are gone
- Deathballing
less hitstagger means more time to react -> less impossible to win situations

Opinions?

[Jedioutcast88]

It’s interesting, what system do you mainly play on?

[Camemberto]

It’s interesting, what system do you mainly play on?

PS4.
I would argue, light spam + hitstunlocking are the most prevalent issues here.

[Jedioutcast88]

PS4.
I would argue, light spam + hitstunlocking are the most prevalent issues here.

I play on PS4 as well and I would agree that the light spamming is a big issue. PC I don’t find it nearly as bad and more manageable to deal with.

Pretty much right know the defense mechanic are almost none existent on console and players are exploiting the crap out of it by using character that have fast lights. Being that I have seen both sides of the spectrum i have said this in other posts on the forums that the changes made has ruined the console version defense mechanics they are the real cause to a lot of issues players have on Xbox one and ps4. I do agree that something needs to be done as soon as possible to correct this.

[Camemberto]

I play on PS4 as well and I would agree that the light spamming is a big issue. PC I don’t find it nearly as bad and more manageable to deal with.

Pretty much right know the defense mechanic are almost none existent on console and players are exploiting the crap out of it by using character that have fast lights. Being that I have seen both sides of the spectrum i have said this in other posts on the forums that the changes made has ruined the console version defense mechanics they are the real cause to a lot of issues players have on Xbox one and ps4. I do agree that something needs to be done as soon as possible to correct this.

Well would you agree with my suggestions? I think light attacks NEED to be slowed down, to give console players a change. But by making them not stop when blocked and less punishing to have parried will keep them from being useless at the same time. Very little punishment on parried and a bit of chip damage on blocked heavies will make those more viable as well. Removing softfeints from UBs, but keeping the guaranteed lights on parries, should nerf unblockable spam just enough I think.

[Charmzzz]

Your suggestions would lead to the need of a complete rebalancing and / or rework of the whole Character Cast. Never gonna happen.

E.g.:
"7. GB only guarantees light attack" - What about PK triple stab?
"2. Slow down light attacks, to make them more reactable /blockable again" Would lead to a 90% parry rate on PC.
"1. No superior block on light attacks -> Chains would continue" So infinite chains are OP now?
"6. No softfeints on unblockables, only cancels" Full rebalance / rework of Raider, Shaman, Kensei etc needed.

I can agree on:
8. less hitstagger/stun
9. speed up/shorten the parry animations to make the fight more fluent
10: parrying unblockables still guarantees light

[Jedioutcast88]

Well would you agree with my suggestions? I think light attacks NEED to be slowed down, to give console players a change. But by making them not stop when blocked and less punishing to have parried will keep them from being useless at the same time. Very little punishment on parried and a bit of chip damage on blocked heavies will make those more viable as well. Removing softfeints from UBs, but keeping the guaranteed lights on parries, should nerf unblockable spam just enough I think.

I agree with the problem and your not the only one that is experiencing. The solution however is simple, you can agree with it or not I’ll leave it up to you but that is Ubisoft needs to optimize and Needs a console exclusive patch. You take orochi 400ms lights on console they are very hard to deal with while on PC orochi is not much of a threat even tho he is faster. Everything that has been done with for honor has favored PC over console. A lot of issues that console players are facing PC players don’t, Because of this it has given a lot of mixed feedback when bringing up issues. While one side will deal with one issue the other side wasn’t. It really just comes down to the console version needs to be reworked specifically for console to perform better. I do think your ideas are good and would make the console side better if this change was done across both console and PC while console would benefit from it PC could suffer from it.

I do agree with light attacks needed to be adjusted on console, and stagger time shortened. As for the parries times although is good it but it might effect getting the multi parry with it being shorten. Unblockable spamming really only comes from the highlander. But if they improved the console version and optimized it better to run on console getting the parry off a guarbreak would be more manageable to do specially in the ganking situation.

[SpaceJim12]

7. GB only guarantees light attack" - What about PK triple stab?

I think it don't count. Some special move, same as Cent pommel triple.

6. No softfeints on unblockables, only cancels" Full rebalance / rework of Raider, Shaman, Kensei etc needed

But that zone->softfeint->top->blind are really annoying and I see a lot Raider that just spam it randomly and win with it.

[SndRC9]

So what your saying is nerf every single vanguard/tank hero and buff every single assassin/hybrid hero
yes buff the memebringer and fatgoki more
Warden main btw.(PC)
I would add stamina deduction or more deduction for continuous stance changes since players just move their mouse/stick around

[Camemberto]

Your suggestions would lead to the need of a complete rebalancing and / or rework of the whole Character Cast. Never gonna happen.

E.g.:
"7. GB only guarantees light attack" - What about PK triple stab?
"2. Slow down light attacks, to make them more reactable /blockable again" Would lead to a 90% parry rate on PC.
"1. No superior block on light attacks -> Chains would continue" So infinite chains are OP now?
"6. No softfeints on unblockables, only cancels" Full rebalance / rework of Raider, Shaman, Kensei etc needed.

I can agree on:
8. less hitstagger/stun
9. speed up/shorten the parry animations to make the fight more fluent
10: parrying unblockables still guarantees light

1. No. Why? See 2.
How is an infinite chain OP, if it is parried 90% of the time?
Also. 400ms lights on console already lead to a 90% getting hit with no chance to react rate. Is that more desirable? It would probably lead to more parries on the console too, which is why they are getting a nerf.

I think these characters would be ok without a major rebalance. Raider, shaman and kensei all lose ONE softfeint. How bad would their design have to be that taking that away breaks the whole character? If it were so, they'd already be doomed.