Community Manager
Hello everyone,
With the kick off of Season 6, we know that many of you have been waiting for get some time with the new changes to Peacekeeper. In anticipation of your feedback, please use this thread to leave your thoughts and comments on the current reworks. this will allow us to better organize and share your comments with the fight team.
If you would like to leave feedback regarding Orochi, please do so here.
Thanks and enjoy the battlefields!
Senior Member
Ok so here is the thing, I am going to be up front here and say that I was not happy with these changes on paper before it came to any kind of play, I think that is an important thing to be honest about. It isn't the nerfs, if she was keeping her speed they needed to happen, it is the fact that you still have a character carded as a counter attacker that doesn't need to counter attack and doesn't get reward from counter attacking. Peacekeeper's best offence has always and still does come from being able to outpace the enemy with lights and that has never felt like the right way for her.
What annoyed me most was that the devs pretty much outright said it on the stream, fast lights is her thing now, it is what they are going to balance around because in their mind she is an in your face persistent threat, sorry but that doesn't sound like a counter attacker to me, the devs might as well change that to harasser (not a slight on berserkers but that is their role and they do it in a different way).
I mained peacekeeper from season one to around season three when I decided as a pug 4v4 player I can't main anyone, I need to fill roles if I can, she was still my go to assassin. The thing is I have rarely thrown two lights together and most of the time I have has been by accident, now I would have to to work in what was given to her in exchange for those nerfs, meanwhile what I tried to use to get rewards for reading and reacting to my opponent has been nerfed over time and has taken another set of nerfs in the name of keeping her 500-400 light-lights and her 400 zone. I hate being negative and maybe these changes will make the peacekeeper interesting for people who play her but I won't be one of them.
Member
The peacekeeper feels like a complete waste of time now : she's frustrating to play, have no goals in her gameplay and feels more spammy than ever
it's a shame that this result came out after a so-called "rework"
You must stop making nerf by changing a bunch of value, by a huge amount : it always creates a combo-**** effect
I main PK since season 1 and i was really impatient about her rework :
Spamming lights worked but didn't feel right to use, and i was using her heavy/lights mixups (leading someone to parry a light while using a heavy) combined with her feints to kill my opponents
and that was it, she didn't really have a lot of tools beside being super fast and 2 good feints or mixups
So i was expecting her rework to nerf the tools she already had, but adding new ones to her
But adding one tool and nerf everything else wasn't EXACTLY what makes a good character
She used to be OP thanks to her insane damage value and her fast retreat : she now have avergae dodges, and far less than average dmg, incredibilis. She only have this speed of her, and one more feint, and you better be extremely good at feinting, because you'll have to land at least 10 of these mosquito hits to achieve anything (while kensei, orochis, HL... Most characters can just spam nightmares mixups for 30 to 50 dmg reward while you get a ****ty 20 on a heavy : awesome)
Now, the salt part is out : what did i expect from these changes ?
The lack of goals, and decisive attacks
The pk cannot escape from harassing opponent because she don't have any real "hard to pull off but rewarding" attack : everything she have is about dealing chips dmg to your opponent and kill him slowly. And oh boï, this is frustrating to play : it's so frustrating that after less than a day i am considering coming back to valk.
I'm not talking about efficiency (while it's still an issue, like, a clear issue here) but about the feeling she have : you never feel like you're actually doing something with her.
Why does she have bleed ?
What does it brings to her ? Damages ? Attacks already do that. What does it bring in term of gameplay : i'll answer, nothing.
Nobushi and Shaman use bleed too, but both have mechanics around it that makes you want to bleed people out (bonus dmg, regen and new attack) : WHY pk doens't have that ???
I thought it was quite clear : she have the bleed in her kit without any use for it. The only reason i use it is because it gives additionnal dmg, but it could as well be regular dmg instead of bleed, i will see no difference in how i play her.
I had an idea of an "assassination" style attack : the concept is quite simple. On a bleeding target, you use assassination to end the bleed immediatly (the target takes all the dmg from the bleed) and add a % bonus dmg depending on how much bleed you achieved to stack on the target
For example : my target have 20dmg of bleed remaining. I use assassination : she immediately take the remaining 20dmg + 50% of this amount (+10 dmg here) from "assassination"
This tool would 1) make her have goals in her gameplay, 2) make her bleed useful for something and 3) give her a feeling of satisfaction, and effectiveness.
Because she can't "burst" an opponent and have no way to make a really more concrete attack, she just feels like constant foreplaying : always getting higher without ever achieving anything.
Please, fix this, give her at least one way to defend herself
Now, on another aspect :
Do you realise that Orochi is basically the pre nerf pk now ?
"let's nerf her heavyes, 33 is way too much for an assassin !" - 35 dmg for orochi
"Oh boï, her dash attacks are so op, let's make it do less dmg" - ****load of fast and hard to react counterattacks with decent to high dmg
"17 dmg on a light is way too much !" 22 for orochi
"Her zone is really an issue let's..." orochi have a slightly less good one, but more rewarding too
etc
The orochi have basically high dmg, speed, heavy feint game and is good at counter attacking now : it just feels completely stupid when you see that in the same update one character had these taken away from him while another get the same exact ****ing problems
in the SAME update !!
Senior Member
Season 1 Peacekeeper main now putting most of my time into Valkyrie oddly enough, while she needs some work she is what I was looking for in the Peacekeeper, someone who when I do manage to counter can land a burst of damage or at the least make the opponent guess between guardbreak and spear sweep.Originally Posted by Kahnjul Go to original post
I don't all together have an opinion on orochi yet but certainly pre-rework, if it wasn't that I preferred sword and dagger Orochi would have pushed Peacekeeper close for being my main because he actually is a counter attacker.
Member
She has no unblockables, no mix ups, she is BORING, stick your bleed up your BooTT, anyone would prefer damage NOW, than several seconds later, and what the hell with you CONSTANTLY **** up her animations, first it was Appolions sword not showing up, now it's her Appolion mask floating off her face... I have no words...
Member
Senior Member
Damage nerfs on almost EVERY attack (except Deflect...) was too much. Playing PK feels like hitting with a wet noodle. Every reworked Character got some of this: unblockables, undodgeables, 400ms Light after a Heavy feint (!), Hyperarmor everywhere, new Chains.
What did PK get to compensate for that massive Damage nerf?
- A Stunning Tap 0.5 which deals 10 Bleed Damage (compared to 18 on Raider) and does not even Stun and is far less pressuring as the startup is NOT an Unblockable...
- BUGFIXED mixups (which you broke by removing Timesnap back in September 2017)
- Bleeds stacking, but NOT when you hit GB-Bleed two times consecutively. Seriously WTF!?
I understand why you needed to nerf PK from Season 4 Data. But that is 2 Seasons ago AND you reworked 3 Characters which are easily A- or S-Tier, I would even say they are above PK except the Kensei. Conq and Zerker are insanely good after their reworks. And on PK you threw out big nerfs, fixed a Bug you introduced ages ago and added ONE "new" move!?
I am hugely disappointed. I guess PK will be the new Valk, I just switch over to your FOTM Characters, too, and play PK only for the lulz... Otherwise it is like playing Valk, much effort for very small reward. And Valk still got CC which is good in group fights, PK does not have this option at all...
Edit: A list of the Damage changes:
- Zone first hit 20 -> 15
- First Light 17 -> 13
- Neutral Heavy 33 -> 20
- Comboed Heavy 30 -> 25 (costs 2 less Stamina now, wow...)
- Riposting Stab (Deflect) 15 + 15 Bleed -> 20 + 15 Bleed (but the PK Deflect is so bad against all the Hyperarmor you added to the game. Oro and Zerker have much better Deflects)
- Top Dodge Heavy 20 -> 15
- Dagger Cancels and Deep Gouge 15 -> 10 Bleed (Mosquito anyone?)
Why the actual f*ck did you have to nerf Heavy AND Deep Gouge? You know that Deep Gouge ends a Chain, do you? That is a Damage nerf of 18 (!) on a neutral Heavy.
If I compare these Damage values to other Characters it is pretty ridiculous what you did to PK without giving her something to compensate...
Edit2: Oh, wait, I forgot that you nerfed her Side Dodge recovery to 600ms (while Shaman still has 500ms) in this Patch, too. Together with the global back dodge nerf this makes an INSANE amount of nerfs to PK.
Banned
So here's the thing: I've typically been one who almost always gives the devs the benefit of the doubt, advocating patience and logic, and ultimately compassion for a dev team that had their work cut out for them. This patch not only feels like a slap to the face, but then a knife to the back. If there was any evidence to support the claims that the dev team has no concept what so ever on how to establish and maintain a proper balance to characters, this is it.
Charmzzz and Candle have done a great job outlining exactly what is wrong with this update. The changes to peacekeeper seem less like quality of life fixes, and and more like the devs cow tailing to the overly vocal minority of players who hatred this hero. So rather than listen to viable feedback from the more moderate and logical players that are mature enough to pin point exactly where her trouble areas are, you catered to the knee jerk complaints of casual players. These changes are ridiculous, and I for one won't be back till this botched update is fixed. Not like that matters to the devs, but hey, at least I don't have to deal with the stress of investing into yet another game that's going to go careening down the proverbial ****-hole just to appease players that are more likely to quit after a few months.
Also note, I never once referred to this as a rework, because IT'S ****ING NOT! You devs didn't rework anything on peacekeeper. Not a ******* thing! You nerfed her, and fixed some things. Kensei was a rework. Conquerer was a rework. Berserker and orochi were reworked. What you did to peacekeeper is called patching. And the only reason you did this, was to hopefully shut up the forums trolls that whined about her for so long. And a lot of good that did, because now you've pissed off all the competent supporters you had by destroying a hero.
Banned
PK barely does any damage now. And if they decide to turtle, just don't bother - i run away and find new situations. Against people that can block (not necessary parry, but just block) it's just not worth trying to crack them.
The soft feint is great, but PK still has severely limited tool set. It shouldn't be equated damage-wise to other characters that are far more robust and flexible, like Shaman. This breaks the balance. Shaman is superior now.
Senior Member
Going to be honest, I think you're kind of over-reacting, she did not get "Destroyed" shes still a top tier duelist, just gotta work a little harder to secure your kill. She got treated far better than Nobu did with their "Reworks" (totally not reworks) PK's bugfixes/balance pass are definitely a step in the right direction with her, if they gave her the ability to cancel the dagger in any direction and reduced stamina costs across the board I think she would be in a good place.Originally Posted by alustar24 Go to original post
Devs, REALLY need to be more careful about how they word things.
Kensei, Orochi, HL, Zerk are pretty safe to call reworks
Nobushi and PK got a balance pass.
In case you dont feel like readying my small paragraph above
I say to give her
-Give her the ability to cancel dagger in any direction (If Shamans gonna be the jack of all trades, Shaman should be the one with a bleed that always comes from top, while PK has the one that comes from any direction)
-Reduce Stamina costs across the board.
-Possibly give her the ability to cancel zone follow up with a GB
-Possibly revert some damage values, or slightly increase some
