Will the Peacekeeper Rework Be Too Much Nerf? | Forums

[KotoKuraken]

So the Peacekeeper rework entails

--nerfing down the damage of her light attacks, heavies, and zone
--slowing down her dodge attacks
--can only use her heavy into bleed cancel from one direction instead of being able to choose which side it comes out on, which will be highly predictable
--backdodge will be the exact same as everyone else

Now, some of these things were warranted, but not to the combined extent of this "rework". Sure she'll be able to stack bleeds, but you'd need to either land a bunch of bleed cancels or a heavy to stack those up.

Concerns
The sole reasons, as I understand it, as to why she was #1 was due to her backdodge getting her out of trouble and the amount of damage she can do.
However, with the damage and speed being removed from PK and having no great dodge properties, what tools does she have as a counter attacker? She doesn't have hyperarmor, bashes, unblockables, or a super damaging deflect either. I'm not saying I want any of that, it's great that she doesn't. The problem, though, is that she won't have any unique moveset to "counter" people with like Orochi did aside from the heavy into only top bleed.

Disclaimer
I don't play assassins at all (you can even check my profile about that), but as someone who plays Conq/Lawbro/Shugo, she's looking like she'll be easier to fight than pre-rework Orochi. Maybe we'll have to wait and see until after the rework, but I'm kinda concerned this character will be obliterated off the playlist with how few tools she will have.

[Knight_Raime]

She's dropping to A tier. So no. She'll still be plenty fine.

[KotoKuraken]

She's dropping to A tier. So no. She'll still be plenty fine.

Why do you think she'll still be A tier? She will have nothing special about her, aside from her heavy cancel into bleed. She is looking to especially have even less than Valk has but with less damage.

From how her kit is looking, she'll possibly sink into C tier

[Knight_Raime]

Why do you think she'll still be A tier? She will have nothing special about her, aside from her heavy cancel into bleed. She is looking to especially have even less than Valk has but with less damage.

From how her kit is looking, she'll possibly sink into C tier

Because 600ms side dodges are still strong enough to avoid most mix ups and punish them. Because her light/delayed light is still 400ms and hard to defend against. and because her zone option select is still present. Not to mention her soft feint GB seems to be the best in the game of it's kind (it consistently grabs people in their start up frames of attacks better than other ones) and it's being buffed to be able to be used in her combos now instead of just from neutral.

C tier heros are reserved for heros with no strong tools and terrible match ups against S tier heros. The biggest change she received nerf wise was a nerf to her damage profile which hurts her max punishes.

[KotoKuraken]

Because 600ms side dodges are still strong enough to avoid most mix ups and punish them. Because her light/delayed light is still 400ms and hard to defend against. and because her zone option select is still present. Not to mention her soft feint GB seems to be the best in the game of it's kind (it consistently grabs people in their start up frames of attacks better than other ones) and it's being buffed to be able to be used in her combos now instead of just from neutral.

C tier heros are reserved for heros with no strong tools and terrible match ups against S tier heros. The biggest change she received nerf wise was a nerf to her damage profile which hurts her max punishes.

She does still have option select, I'll give you that, but her side dodge attack won't have much damage at all and will be easily parried since she can't just delay it like Kensei can. Her soft feint is exactly like others though, there's not difference between hers, Centurions, or Shamans. They can all softfeint exactly the same.

As far as her lights attacks though, those will do half the damage Shinobi can already do and they are the same speed (Shinobi gets a guaranteed 2 lights upon landing the first) and her heavy + light bleed will also do roughly half of Shinobi's heavy + guaranteed light while also being the exact same speed.

If option select and a soft-feint into guardbreak are the only tools she has, she might be a slightly worse Centurion

[UbiJurassic]

So the Peacekeeper rework entails

--nerfing down the damage of her light attacks, heavies, and zone
--slowing down her dodge attacks
--can only use her heavy into bleed cancel from one direction instead of being able to choose which side it comes out on, which will be highly predictable
--backdodge will be the exact same as everyone else

Now, some of these things were warranted, but not to the combined extent of this "rework". Sure she'll be able to stack bleeds, but you'd need to either land a bunch of bleed cancels or a heavy to stack those up.

Concerns
The sole reasons, as I understand it, as to why she was #1 was due to her backdodge getting her out of trouble and the amount of damage she can do.
However, with the damage and speed being removed from PK and having no great dodge properties, what tools does she have as a counter attacker? She doesn't have hyperarmor, bashes, unblockables, or a super damaging deflect either. I'm not saying I want any of that, it's great that she doesn't. The problem, though, is that she won't have any unique moveset to "counter" people with like Orochi did aside from the heavy into only top bleed.

Disclaimer
I don't play assassins at all (you can even check my profile about that), but as someone who plays Conq/Lawbro/Shugo, she's looking like she'll be easier to fight than pre-rework Orochi. Maybe we'll have to wait and see until after the rework, but I'm kinda concerned this character will be obliterated off the playlist with how few tools she will have.

PK's rework was actually brought up and discussed during a podcast held by some of the top players in For Honor on Twitch. If you're interested in hearing their thoughts on the rework, you can find it here. There's also a PK rework update that was put out yesterday as well that's a interesting read.

Also as a point of clarification, while you technically could choose the direction of the dagger cancel, it wasn't very useful since the cancel would come from the same direction the attack was canceled from. With the changes to it, it provides an opportunity to cross-up your opponent by allowing it dagger cancel to come from a direction different from the attack you canceled from.

[Knight_Raime]

She does still have option select, I'll give you that, but her side dodge attack won't have much damage at all and will be easily parried since she can't just delay it like Kensei can. Her soft feint is exactly like others though, there's not difference between hers, Centurions, or Shamans. They can all softfeint exactly the same.

As far as her lights attacks though, those will do half the damage Shinobi can already do and they are the same speed (Shinobi gets a guaranteed 2 lights upon landing the first) and her heavy + light bleed will also do roughly half of Shinobi's heavy + guaranteed light while also being the exact same speed.

If option select and a soft-feint into guardbreak are the only tools she has, she might be a slightly worse Centurion

Her option select is one of the strongest in the game because of how good her zone is. That's what her biggest thing going for her is.
She doesn't need to have a massive delay to her dash attack. It's still a good one to punish a raw bash and since bleed stacks now that's still damage she keeps ticking.
If you speak to lots of seasoned players with pk they will specifically note that her soft cancel into GB is more reliable at grabbing people in their vulnerability.

Shinobi's lights are strong damaging but that's really it. He has no offense. And people deal with his lights far easier than pk's lights.
She's still some what safe. and now has more flexible cancels. According to the way the current tier list is based on the competitive reddit there isn't anyway she'd drop to anything below A tier. In order for that to happen she'd have to lose her option select. Which will probably never happen. So she'd have to get bumped out of A tier by future reworks. I forsee warlord being bumped out by orochi. Not sure if anyone in A tier will move to S tier though. for now that seems to be only occupied by 3 people (pk now no longer in S tier.)

[DrinkinMyStella]

Rather than assume this is a nerf which is does look like, lets wait a week to see how she fairs against the best of them with the changes, i'm sure if she is under performing then she will be buffed.

[Kahnjul]

I really don't understand why she still have bleed without any use for it : except doing delayed damage, it doesn't bring any deepnees on her gameplay.
She really lacks something that will make her more than a fast boring spammer
I mean, applying bleed on a target simply make her suffer dmg (and attacks does that already) while Shaman and Nobu also use it with unique and cool mechanics
PK should really get rewarded for applying bleed or something like that, even if it comes with others nerfs.

Also, to be fair, when i see kensei, shaman or zerk in action i just want to throw her to garbage because she's so monodimensional. Sure she's effective, but effective doesn't mean fun

[Charmzzz]

and it's being buffed to be able to be used in her combos now instead of just from neutral.

Oh nononono, no, just no. It is FIXED to work AGAIN like it did until September 2017 when they removed Timesnap... And now they sell it to us as a REWORK. Yes, I AM MAD about this...