1. #1
    Jumoschwanz's Avatar Banned
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    I got onto a Mustangs six very low over the water and was lining up a shot. This was on a server with full-difficulty settings.
    He pulled back on his stick and stalled out the plane and started to spin like a leaf. I was very close when he did this and I was lucky to hit his spinning plane with a few 20mm rounds in the tail right before I passed over him. I don't think there was any more room between the bottom of my plane and the water to fit his Mustang from nose to tail.
    I waited for the "enemy aircraft destroyed" on the HUD and was surprised there was none. Shortly after, I had tracers coming over my shoulder. The Mustang had recovered and got on my six and was firing!

    The same night on a different full-difficulty server, I got on the six of a Spit5b. I fired a few rounds and he immediately pulled back into a spinning stall. He fell quite a ways in a spin then got out close to the ground. I was there to fire a few more shots at him and he repeated the same stunt, this time I thought too low to recover as again we were maybe twice as high as the trees. This time I watched as he straightened out the craft and flew on. I hit him a few more times and finally put him into the trees.

    This was a common stunt in this sim two or three years ago. I know with patch 3.04 these pilots would not have gotten away with this trick at their low alt. Now it seems common. Anyone else run into this?

    Also I am sure someone in a real Spit or Mustang would never go into a stall and spin fifty to a hundred feet above the ground and get out of it. This is the first bu!!**** thing I have noticed about the 4.01 flight model.

    S!

    Jumoschwanz
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  2. #2
    Jumoschwanz's Avatar Banned
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    I got onto a Mustangs six very low over the water and was lining up a shot. This was on a server with full-difficulty settings.
    He pulled back on his stick and stalled out the plane and started to spin like a leaf. I was very close when he did this and I was lucky to hit his spinning plane with a few 20mm rounds in the tail right before I passed over him. I don't think there was any more room between the bottom of my plane and the water to fit his Mustang from nose to tail.
    I waited for the "enemy aircraft destroyed" on the HUD and was surprised there was none. Shortly after, I had tracers coming over my shoulder. The Mustang had recovered and got on my six and was firing!

    The same night on a different full-difficulty server, I got on the six of a Spit5b. I fired a few rounds and he immediately pulled back into a spinning stall. He fell quite a ways in a spin then got out close to the ground. I was there to fire a few more shots at him and he repeated the same stunt, this time I thought too low to recover as again we were maybe twice as high as the trees. This time I watched as he straightened out the craft and flew on. I hit him a few more times and finally put him into the trees.

    This was a common stunt in this sim two or three years ago. I know with patch 3.04 these pilots would not have gotten away with this trick at their low alt. Now it seems common. Anyone else run into this?

    Also I am sure someone in a real Spit or Mustang would never go into a stall and spin fifty to a hundred feet above the ground and get out of it. This is the first bu!!**** thing I have noticed about the 4.01 flight model.

    S!

    Jumoschwanz
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  3. #3
    Monson74's Avatar Senior Member
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    Well, throwing away all your E & not knowing which direction you'll be going when recovering can hardly put you in a position of advantage..
    This is really a desperate act I think & while it's frustrating for the guy who was anticipating a kill it isn't a move that will endanger anyone but the pilot performing it.
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  4. #4
    Grue_'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Maybe they were as ham fisted as I am and spun by accident
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  5. #5
    Yes, but I think Jumoschwanz's post was wondering if this is realistic FM. If what he saw was accurate, and I've got no reason to doubt him, I too think that would not be realistic.
    After all 2 tree lengths high would be 50 to 100 feet off the ground. I know when I try to take off and inadverdently do something stupid and induce a stall I'm dead. Can't be more height than what Jumoschwanz reported.
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  6. #6
    Stigler_9_JG52's Avatar Banned
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    Splayfighting has always been with us in this sim, and to be honest, it's been in other sims as well.

    The worst "bullsh*t result" you can get from this is when the moron pulls this stunt at extremely close range, and then YOU collide with him and he "flutters away" as if nothing happened. Or, you lose a wing and nothing happens to him.

    Not really much to be done about it, unfortunately. It's an incredible risk on the part of the guy who does it, and the sim rewards him at times. I imagine in RL, you'd simply be dead pulling a stunt like that. At the very least, you could try a nice, sloppy barrel roll and buy some time that way.
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  7. #7
    F19_Ob's Avatar Senior Member
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    Some stages of flight might need some tuning with the new FM.

    I posted in ORR (bugreport)about the easy recovery of spins and stalls now and how some planes didn't need recovery at all.
    P51D is one of the planes wich comes out of a spin just by throttling down and with no hands on stick.
    I also tried to force it to a harder spin but no recovery is needed.
    I posted a quick spintest on some planes and labeled them easy-medum-hard.
    U might want to take a peek at it.
    Perhaps it might be looked into if others too posts their experiences.
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  8. #8
    Badsight.'s Avatar Senior Member
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    stalls are not eaiser than ever to recover from , that is false

    some stall's you enter do not want to correct quickly , some stalls go very violent & accellerate quickly

    some pilots are simply better than others & can stall & recover better than most

    but be sure , stalls are more different & varied than at any other time in FB's history
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  9. #9
    F19_Ob's Avatar Senior Member
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    Please spintest the p51D (or any p51) and You'll understand what I mean.

    Do the following:
    Try to get yourself in hardest spin U can from lets say 3000m. Then release the stick and rudderpedals (no hands or feet) and throttle down to idle and watch yourself come out of the spin. If u test it 10 times I'm sure U get the same re****s everytime.
    In real life sometimes a p51 could be quite difficult in a spin especially with a full tank.
    Try to detect any difficulties.

    After this test U will see that it's not crazy to assume that some tuning may be needed on some other planes aswell.

    The Only one plane wich so far is unrecoverable in all spinning motions is the p39.
    Haven't been able to come out of a developed spin (Always flatspin) in it yet, exept only once in a p63.
    So here maybe they overdid it, but I think it's the only one.

    Below is a part of my post in the bugreport in ORR if U want to peek at it and perhaps test the planes I tested.

    ------------------------------------------
    I very much like the torque effect, but
    tried to figure out why most planes in 4.01 are so easy to fly in dogfights.
    I cant really say the turningability is changed(speaking generally) although the FM is new, but the stalls and spins seem much gentler and easier to recover from.
    One doesen't need to be careful in the planes that had vicious snapstalls in 3.04.

    In situations where it was likely to snapstall and/or spin in 3.04 planes now just have a gentle stall or make a couple of spinning motions but immediatly come out of it just by rolling or ruddering in the other direction.
    The fully developed spins also feel quite easy to recover with a few exeptions.

    I think the gentle stall and spin may be why for example the p38 is better now. It could make almost as good turns in 304 but then it had a snappy stall and spin if one wasn't careful, no risk of that now.
    The same goes for P40, p39 and spits and p51d wich in 3.04 were quite dangerous in really slow speeds if one altered directions quickly.
    ------------------------------------------------

    I just include a Spinrecovery-test from 3000m.


    P39N1 seems hardest to recover from developed spins.
    P51D (allp51's) no recovery needed, just throttle down.
    P40- easy
    P47- easy
    spits- easy
    Hurricane- easy
    Yak1b -medium - hard.
    yak7b -medium - hard
    B-239 - easy
    109e easy- medium
    109G6 easy- easy medium
    fw190 A5 - easy-medium
    Ju87- medium
    Fiats -easy
    I.A.R. 81a medium-hard
    p38j - easy
    I-16 easy
    IL-2 no recovery needed
    LaGG3 medium-hard
    La5 -easy-medium
    mig3 -easy
    F4F-3 - easy
    corsairMK1 - easy
    A20 - easy
    Zeros- easy-medium
    Ki43- esy
    Ki61 -easy
    Ki84-la Medium-hard

    Others may think differently about the "easy-medium- hard" labels in this test. I just included that so U have a startingpoint if U find there is a need to check this out.
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  10. #10
    Hmmm... this must be the same flip thing that happened to me when I pulled hard on the stick in a P38 and flipped for several revolutions. It didn`t feel right then, but now that people are using it to get out of trouble (and surviving) it definitely feels wrong.

    Again... a feeling. But i`ve not read, seen or heard of WWII pilots using this technique to escape a bogey in a dogfight. Something like a induced cart-wheeling flip I would remember.
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