Should Special moves Counter Special Properties? | Forums

[Roseguard_Cpt]

On and off I've seen debates about crushing counters and deflecting and how they interact with certain moves. Some moves are given priority over others like how you cannot deflect or crushing counter an unblockable move at the moment, but how Zerk Deflect GB takes priority over any followup moves.
I'm a bit curious about a general idea of what people think about these sorts of "Priority Moves". Personally I'd like to be able to Counter Crush the Kensei top heavy UB as Highlander (or Warden) but would that break the game like how in the past we couldn't throw heavies at Conquerors due to GB on Block? Deflect and CC are supposed to be core mechanics to certain characters, but where do we feel the "Priority Move" line should lay?

Because I'm bad at explaining things the first time;
1. Should Unblockables be able to be Crushing Countered?
2. Should Unblockables be able to be Deflected?

Just curious what you all think,
RGC

[Xinlyfenne]

1. No.
2. No.

Both are special block moves. Therefore they cannot defend against unblockables.

Superior blocks block the attack, interrupting it. It allows you to do an action - be it automatic counter attack, GB, or counter move. It's still a block, just one that can interrupt heavies.

Deflects also count as blocks. They semi-block while evading, and attack during the enemy's recovery.

Berserker's deflect GB is not special either. Instead of an attack, you GB during their recovery. To demonstrate this point, it was shown previously that Berserker's GB could be interrupted if you deflected a multi-hit move like another Berserker's zone. However, they buffed deflect to deflect multiple hits in a row, so that won't happen anymore.

[Vakris_One]

On and off I've seen debates about crushing counters and deflecting and how they interact with certain moves. Some moves are given priority over others like how you cannot deflect or crushing counter an unblockable move at the moment, but how Zerk Deflect GB takes priority over any followup moves.
I'm a bit curious about a general idea of what people think about these sorts of "Priority Moves". Personally I'd like to be able to Counter Crush the Kensei top heavy UB as Highlander (or Warden) but would that break the game like how in the past we couldn't throw heavies at Conquerors due to GB on Block? Deflect and CC are supposed to be core mechanics to certain characters, but where do we feel the "Priority Move" line should lay?

Because I'm bad at explaining things the first time;
1. Should Unblockables be able to be Crushing Countered?
2. Should Unblockables be able to be Deflected?

Just curious what you all think,
RGC

1. No
2. No

Unblockables already have a hard counter and that is parrying. If they can be countered in the exact same ways as normal attacks then it defeats the entire point of having unblockables in the game and the game loses some of its necessary complexity.

[Alustar.exe]

Deflect isn't a block, dodge is to block where as deflect is to parry.

[PepsiBeastin]

1. No
2. No

Unblockables already have a hard counter and that is parrying. If they can be countered in the exact same ways as normal attacks then it defeats the entire point of having unblockables in the game and the game loses some of its necessary complexity.

"countered in the exact same ways as normal attacks" excuse me I'm pretty sure you can't block unblockables. Also, deflects aren't blocks, they're different from what characters like valk get on dodge since no guard is actually up. If anything deflect should be a more viable defense against unblockables since it makes more sense to redirect such a large force (deflect) rather than overpower it (parry).

[Eisenwolf.]

1. No.
2. Yes. (talking about unblockable weapon attacks; not stuff like a punsh or kick)

Deflects also count as blocks. They semi-block while evading, and attack during the enemy's recovery.

Deflect has no stagger effect like a block. It has it's own property set. > So NO, it does not (should not) count as a block.

* It also would only be beneficial to assassins, keeping in mind that they have a disadvantage on block (via reflex guard).
* Plus, deflects are more risky than parries + unblockables doing a ton of dmg and are feintable most of the time and therefore make it possible to catch someone on dodge too.

There is not really a reason why unblockables should not be deflectable.

[Xinlyfenne]

Deflect isn't a block, dodge is to block where as deflect is to parry.

If that were the case, you would be able to deflect unblockables, which is untrue.

The deflect is a special evasive block. Instead of interrupting the attack while dodging, you dodge the attack, while also blocking to redirect the attack. This is shown when someone has punch through and you deflect. You'll still take the block damage. So deflect counts as a block.

Deflect has no stagger effect like a block. It has it's own property set. > So NO, it does not count as a block.

It is a special block, just as superior block. Superior blocks interrupt heavies and lights. Normal block interrupt lights. Deflects do not interrupt, instead block-evading. So yes, it counts as a block. Read above as well.

Also, you can't edit your statement when I have already quoted it here. The passive aggressive 'So NO' part doesn't make any sense now. Either is doesn't count as a block or it shouldn't. It can't be both.


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[HazelrahFirefly]

Deflect isn't a block, dodge is to block where as deflect is to parry.

Precisely.

To not want deflect to override unblockables is ridiculous. It's already an incredibly risky move against even the weakest attack. To force it so you can't deflect it, as it is now, limits the variance between heroes.

I'd wager that most who say no to deflecting unblockables dont play assassins and have a grudge against them

[HazelrahFirefly]

If that were the case, you would be able to deflect unblockables, which is untrue.

The deflect is a special evasive block. Instead of interrupting the attack while dodging, you dodge the attack, while also blocking to redirect the attack. This is shown when someone has punch through and you deflect. You'll still take the block damage. So deflect counts as a block.



It is a special block, just as superior block. Superior blocks interrupt heavies and lights. Normal block interrupt lights. Deflects do not interrupt, instead block-evading. So yes, it counts as a block. Read above as well.

Also, you can't edit your statement when I have already quoted it here. The passive aggressive 'So NO' part doesn't make any sense now. Either is doesn't count as a block or it shouldn't. It can't be both.

Your logic is unfortunately based on one poorly implemented thing: deflects behave the way they do against unblockables because they were programmed that way by a team that ****s the bed when it comes to balance. If they had been able to deflect unblockables before you would be saying the opposite thing.

[Xinlyfenne]

Your logic is unfortunately based on one poorly implemented thing: deflects behave the way they do against unblockables because they were programmed that way by a team that ****s the bed when it comes to balance. If they had been able to deflect unblockables before you would be saying the opposite thing.

Your argument has no merit. I am not saying whether or not deflects should objectively be blocks or not. I am saying that they are classified as such by the For Honor team.

It the other were true, I would be saying as so.

I recommend you touch up on your reading comprehension afore quoting others.


-/-