Please help to explain why Orochi didn't get things he needed in the rework | Forums

[KotoKuraken]

He has unblockables via deflect. Soft feinting/bashes are meant to open a hero up. Orochi isn't meant to. He's meant to punish off of peoples reactions. Storm rush is his new initiating tool and it's a strong one. Hurricane blast beats a HA spaming berzerker. and since both riptide and SR are outside zerks short range the match up is more even. Zerk also relies on a lot of feint baiting. Which won't work VS SR because it will be cancelable at any time up until the attack starts.

The match up with zerk is still in zerks favor but it's not as one sided as you believe. Shaman is hard punished by the entire cast sans 2 people in most cases if you read her properly. Everyone can get a GB or more from dodging her pounce/bite. everyone sans 2 heros can back dash to avoid her jump heavy and it's mix up. Her zone is unsafe after the first 2 hits and is light parry punished for letting it continue. and parrying any of her bleed cancels is also a light parry punish. The only reason Shaman is A tier is because she has more options than most heros do to attempt to mix up with. She still has pretty awful matchups vs the current S tier heros.



Mate there is no turtle meta. It's safe aggression now. Turtling was strong pre season 5 due to the rewards you got from playing passively. Now that those are gone players attack a lot more.




LB doesn't have a good bash. He relies on the person attacking him. Assassins negate it entirely with deflect/dodge attack. and most other heros have some soft feint and/or bash from neutral to circumvent it. Block into bash only really hurts a few people badly. and it's not sticking around once he's reworked. Shinobi's kick is also not a good bash. Shinobi no longer can back dash into another dash for a kick anymore due to back dash nerf. So his options for mixing up it's directions are limited now. and his kick is dodgable on reaction. The only thing good about it is that you can back flip away after a whiff. Which most people can't punish it consistently along side the kick.

Giving everyone a bash circumvents defensive play. So no.

lol, not a good bash?
LB has hyperarmor on his bash, even with the one he can initiate from neutral, and it can be chained into a light, a guardbreak, or a heavy, giving you some mindgame options
Shinobi guarantees a 30 damage heavy and it has hyperarmor.

Both can be used on dodge, so that you can dodge someone's attack and bash them so that they can't dodge it, and it can be used as a device to make people guess if that next dodge will be a bash or a guardbreak

Keep in mind, Shinobi, Lawbringer, and Orochi all all classified as Counter Attacker. There's no reason to deny Orochi a bash

[HazelrahFirefly]

Orochi doesn't need a single thing listed in this thread so far. He does not need a bash or unblockable.

The Storm Rush rework is ****ing perfect. It's exactly what he needed to mindgame people. If you don't see the options then look harder.

The one thing that should still be implemented is something that applies to all assassins, or anybody who deflects. They need to be uninterruptable. Yes, the Orochi's heavy is uninterruptable and hopefully it will remain that way after the rework. His light can be interrupted and likely still will after the rework. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Baturai]

Stormrush into gb has to comeback. !!!!!

[Knight_Raime]

lol, not a good bash?
LB has hyperarmor on his bash, even with the one he can initiate from neutral, and it can be chained into a light, a guardbreak, or a heavy, giving you some mindgame options
Shinobi guarantees a 30 damage heavy and it has hyperarmor.

Both can be used on dodge, so that you can dodge someone's attack and bash them so that they can't dodge it, and it can be used as a device to make people guess if that next dodge will be a bash or a guardbreak

Keep in mind, Shinobi, Lawbringer, and Orochi all all classified as Counter Attacker. There's no reason to deny Orochi a bash

Only on his dodge bash. And if you seriously think that bash is good you're a worse player than I thought you were. it having armor means nothing. Basically any trade made is not in favor of LB. the GB off of a bash isn't good because it doesn't come out right after the bash. There is a small delay. And even if these 2 things were not true deflect/dash attack beats those "mind games."

Not always. depends on what he traded with. and your comment still doesn't change my point. which is how easy it is to dodge his kic on reaction. If you dodge on reaction with either hero you're easily baited.

I gave a reason. Giving everyone a bash from neutral ignores defensive play. Which is a bad idea. I'm done talking to you. You clearly don't know anything.

[KotoKuraken]

Only on his dodge bash. And if you seriously think that bash is good you're a worse player than I thought you were. it having armor means nothing. Basically any trade made is not in favor of LB. the GB off of a bash isn't good because it doesn't come out right after the bash. There is a small delay. And even if these 2 things were not true deflect/dash attack beats those "mind games."

Not always. depends on what he traded with. and your comment still doesn't change my point. which is how easy it is to dodge his kic on reaction. If you dodge on reaction with either hero you're easily baited.

I gave a reason. Giving everyone a bash from neutral ignores defensive play. Which is a bad idea. I'm done talking to you. You clearly don't know anything.

lol, only someone who has nothing to say starts talking with insults, especially on forums meant for objectively discussing feedback. If you can't see the point of bashes I don't know what to tell you. Bye, have a nice day

[Arekonator]

Its one of, if not THE slowest neutral bash in the game. Because how slow and easily reactable it is, you cant really dodge into GB like conq can. And on top of that, it doesnt guarantee you anything. While you have some mind game options when you try to predict opponent punish and heavy feint into parry/gb, it all goes out of the window when opponent simply decides not to play and just roll away. At that point, all you manage to acomplish is to slow the fight down and make it more frustrating. Opponent going OOS from roll doesnt mean anything too, because LB got zero OOS pressure.
Its probably the worst bash in the game (maybe save for valk), it just happens to be also the most frustrating.