Senior Member
Nothing to add, this thread is already full of very good ideas. Mia.Nora, We.the.North and Helnekromancer, thanks for the effort, I hope your ideas will make it!
My personal opinion: the idea to buff Revenge is a nono. We had the Revenge-Meta way too long when the game released, don't bring it back please.
Member
Personally i think revenge buffs are a must. The ideas I offered I believe wouldn’t take us back to the meta of old. There wouldn’t even be revenge for most 1v1 or 1v2 engagements.
I like a lot of the dominion suggestions, but that alone isn’t going to solve the problem itself. A lot of these gankers aren’t playing to win - they’re playing to jump into a match and kill things. It just so happens that dominion is the go to generic mode for 4v4. The solution needs to deter four people from disabling players and singling them out, not just give them less points. An emote spamming clown and his four friends of lawbringers aren’t gonna give a rats whether they only get points when standing on C. They’ll still just wanna stand near a bridge all match. The frustration from players at the pointy end isn’t losing so much as not being able to respond and defend themselves. Also... spawn points should be off limits to opponents with a countdown for afkers.
I think the problem is way more sanctioned griefing than simply wins and losses. Outside of that, I’d also hate to be winning games where the outcome is me racking up 10-15 deaths against a team of four not going for zones. That won’t feel like a win in the slightest.
Member
I Think the problem is, that the maps are so empty and easy to move around in.
This is the way I think it should be:
More spread minions and captains
The only place you find minions right now is at B and there is WAY TO MANY of them. On the temple map there are literally 6 rows of minions, with 5 of them just casually standing there, because they're too far in the back to hit anything. It just looks like an organized protest of clones rather than a real battle.
The minions should be spread across the ENTIRETY of the map, but less dense. Also there should be a lot of captains and archers or even straight up NPCs running around.
Instead of having 3 distinct capture points, have paths or ground to capture. (like the game "Creeper")
The way I imagine it is to have some sort of dynamic front line across the whole map and one for each distinct path that exists in the given map. Maps like the Forge would have one wide path along the bottom and one more dense path along the top. The front line would be shifted by killing minions and captains along that path and pushing them back. The more ground area one faction has of the map, the more points they accumulate per given time. Does anybody know the game "Creeper" ? Imagine the minions as some sort of liquid similar to that game.
Also there would be certain points that are extra hard to capture, but give some benefits to the ones holding it. Like some lookout with archers, heavily guarded with captains that slowly shoot down minions in other regions of the map.
This way you can't just run from one end of the battlefield to another without fighting. You will ALWAYS be in a fight as soon as you cross the front line, be it with minions or captains. That being said, the minions won't be as dense, so that you couldn't run in between them, but you would slowly be chipped away at.
The match would be over when:
1. a certain amount of players have been killed (every team gets X respawns)
2. a certain amount of points have been reached -> no respawn
3. the front line has been shifted far enough for a specific amount of time -> no respawn
EDIT:
I think this approach would work wonders, because of how the points are rewarded. Teams only get points for ground area covered so by it's nature it forces players to split up in order to cover more ground. A gank squad would be effective at killing players, but ultimately not make up much ground in the process, therefore losing the match.
Also one thing I forgot to mention is that the front line would always slowly move back to the middle of the map (neutral) if the minions were to be left alone. This way you can't just capture a piece of the map and then retreat, because it would eventually be recaptured on it's own. This way players HAVE to split up and keep pushing.
Member
Feats also need looking into, lawbro bombs and knights catapults are op, warlords auto revive is trash, you only get half health like why? Why is it ok to get revived by a player in 5 seconds with full health but the lv4 feat only gives half health and you take loads of heavy hits or goki can get his hug off as you stand up, also the game ends before the feat kicks in if you die at the end so yeah it's stupid that it's ok to 1 shot 4 players with a lv4 feat but you can't revive with full health to fight like a man with skill. This does not feel like a skill based fighting game anymore just a gank fest feat spam.
Senior Member
Fixed it for you.Originally Posted by bmason1000 Go to original post
Senior Member
Well, almost everything already said here. =)
Just let me add some ideas that maybe will lead to constructive discation.
Easy implement:
1. If devs can't made maps bigger, why don't lower players number? What if Dominion will be 3v3, 1 man per zone. It could solve a lot of problems. First of all, to easily capture zones, while you team are fighting somewhere will be not safe. Cause now if team fight happen in 3v4, OP chars deside who win or loose. In 2v3 fight it will not be so easy. Second, now you already have chance to stand 1v3, while 1v4 are compeat joke, so one man in the zone could really hold it while reinforcments have arrived. And 3v3 means less instakill feats per square meter
2. Don't let players get point from kills. Everybody always say that Dominion is about objective. Ok, give points only to capture, hold zone or kill minions. So it will help avoid situation, when full team holding one zone, you and your teammates can't group up, die one by one and next 5 minutes, enemy team got full set of feats. And you have nothing, so you will been catapulting, fireing, traping and all this things.
3. Now I see a lot of rediculous comebacks. And even wins. I mean, sometimes your team got more objectives, more kills, more points and less deaths, but enemy team still won. Why? Cause overall mechanics in the end of the game are stupid. When enemy team broken and you got +/- 100-200 points play, broken team could easily group up, to gunk someone in the zone, or retake middle. And while you hold zones, or try to cross maps to help your teammate, they already have one zone, none broken and even could broke you. And it's happend cause they didn't have anything to loose, while you team could instantly loose a 100 points, what a huge loos in the end.
So, what should be done, to make Dominion more fair and balance. If one team are broken, another from this moment can't thrown back under 1000 points. Enemy team still could retake zones to claim 100-200 point and break your team, but they now can't just easily dethballing one zone no matter the coast, cause they know it will be respawn after.
And I really agree that Dominion need some sidequest to help boost up points, and zone that were left, should become neutral.
And one more good idea I saw here is to add capitan and minions on point, so it's harder to capture it. And when zone become neutral, there still must be minions and capitan.
Harder to implement:
why Dominion couldn't be same as objectives based mode in Battlefront 2?
No capture and recapture zones, but real objectives like ram and other siege weapons. While attackers team need to load them and fire, defenders team must not allow this. If attackers have 3+ siege weapons loaded and fired, so frontline move closer to defenders spawn zone.
And to compleate destroy any sense of gunking, just give both teams number of soldiers. Like, 100 units for attackers and 150 units for defenders, so every spawn for hero means -1 unit. And if any of the team lost all units, they lost the game. And while defenders have more units it's just loose strategy for attackers try to fight defenders and don't try objectives.
We saw now in Trainings Trails that maps could be deeper, more interesting. Add real objectives, like opening gates, remove archers from strategic zones. All this could help to go away from just capturing zones.
And in the end thing that should known about deathballs and why they still win, even if don't care about objectives.
Even if you gunk, there is no way to not capture a single zone. And more, if you gunk properly, you could recature all zone when opponents down. Problem here is objectives don't requires any smart moves or decidions. I saw LoL as example above, but MOBAs most way have huge objective requirements. You can't just ignore someone pushing through your defence. While in For Honor you have no real trouble if someone recapture the zone while you gunking someone.
Thats why deathball is a problem, cause objectives is something that you do one way or another. Zone now looks like additions to teamkills and teamfights, when someone just care to capture them after a fight.
Banned
Someone mentioned that respawn should be in waves rather than individual timers.
This will fail horribly if respawn timers are based on real time because players will then only kill others with precision timing. It has been done in other games (i think gw2 early in its lifespan) and it was quite an annoying unintended mechanic.
Senior Member
Good idea, but how about, when the a player swings at a team mate, your character reacts as he would when hitting a wall. Your weapon rebounds and staggers you for a short time, but no damage is done. As if your fighter pulls back at the last minute to avoid injury to allies.Originally Posted by Mia.Nora Go to original post
I feel this would be significantly annoying enough to put people off being so careless with attacks when around team mates, doesn't really allow for much trolling and makes more sense than your attacks doing damage to yourself when hitting allies.
Just a thought.
I've taken a break for a month or two, but this problem seems to be the same as when I last played.
Fixing dominion to make gank squads less viable seems simple to me.
1. Make it so capture zones do not generate any points, or generate much less points, when nobody is present at the given point. Ubi will have to test this quite extensively to ensure that if one team is manning two points with two heroes at each, they will outdo the enemy on points if they are rolling around in a group of 4.
2. Feats. Although some feats can be used as an anti-gank, the team who rolls around in a gank squad invariably unlock all of their feats first, unbalancing things even further. I'd hope the feats would have been reworked by now but alas, I'll state again what people have been saying for months - get rid of or reduce drastically the damage of instant damage AoE feats and high level traps. Make the group buff feats more attractive. Reward players more renown on dominion for defending capture zones by themselves or with one other player.
3. Buff the defensive capabilities of revenge. Loads of great ideas to do that on this thread already.
Member
I feel the same way! Additionally there should be some extra stamina damage... This way you don't just keep hammering until you eventually do hit someone, because you will be out of stamina really quickly.Originally Posted by PDXGorechild Go to original post
Senior Member
Not sure if this would fix the problem in dominion and a lot of people might not like my change, but what if you changed the game into more of a king of the hill where while you're in the zone and it's unoccupied by the enemy team you gain points, but you have to stay in the zone to accumulate points. You're no longer allowed to leave it otherwise it goes back to neutral.
