Any other hero over Asassins | Forums

[Charmzzz]

I think HL, Raider and Shugo are all lacking fast lights, where Raider being only one who can semireliably dodge+punish thanks to his good recovery. Then heroes like lawbringer who get fast light only from one direction are ****ed if they had guard anywhere else or even wl if he had guard on top (600ms @ top, 500ms from sides) like you have to against warden, because guardchange + attack is 300ms+500 = 800ms so nowhere near to interrupt.

Shugo mostly does not care for Warden SB with his Hyperarmor. If removed - immediately light and dodge back.
HL - true, but he has alot going on for him now after his buffs.
Lawbringer has 500ms from top and 600ms for side.
You DO know that Warden SB is 700ms, right? Guardchange is 100ms for every Character. 500ms Attack + 100ms Guardchange + 100ms time for reacting + Xms extra time because Warden has to dodge first for SB initiate.

Enough time imo. If you cannot react to that at all - you have biiig problems with alot of other things than Warden SB...

[kanuzira]

Shugo mostly does not care for Warden SB with his Hyperarmor. If removed - immediately light and dodge back.
HL - true, but he has alot going on for him now after his buffs.
Lawbringer has 500ms from top and 600ms for side.
You DO know that Warden SB is 700ms, right? Guardchange is 100ms for every Character. 500ms Attack + 100ms Guardchange + 100ms time for reacting + Xms extra time because Warden has to dodge first for SB initiate.

Enough time imo. If you cannot react to that at all - you have biiig problems with alot of other things than Warden SB...

I have to say that if in a warden vortex i need to roll or dodge out as LB. Maby input delay but not shure

[Charmzzz]

Shugo has not had hyperarmor after people realized it can be taken down by a simple (failed)guardbreak, after that he takes 125% damage. Guardchange is 100ms + 200ms delay with static guard heroes before attacking, add in 250-300ms (fast reaction or young people normal reaction) reaction time it becomes quite hard.

I'm 36 years old and I can do it pretty reliable. Must be some hidden cheat on my PC I guess.

[Charmzzz]

Don't know your personal reaction times, only averages. But with normal guard heroes guardchange+attack is 300ms+500/600 = 800/900ms even without reaction time, it is pretty hard to react to 700ms move

What? Hard to react to a 700ms move? What rig are you playing on? I can reliably react to 600ms attacks by parrying / deflecting, at least block most 500ms attacks. For me it starts to get hard with 400ms attacks.

700ms too fast... For real? Warlord Headbutt, Conq Shoulderbash, everything is faster and you complain about Warden SB? ^^

[SaschoS]

Just pick assassin. You can pretty much spam **** out of everyone with little effort. Or pick LB if you do not like assassins. With everything else you will leave your teeth on pavement.

[Charmzzz]

Just pick assassin. You can pretty much spam **** out of everyone with little effort. Or pick LB if you do not like assassins. With everything else you will leave your teeth on pavement.

Or pick anything against SaschoS and win easily because he is bad at the game.

See what I did there?

[Charmzzz]

Dodging is different than interrupting by attack. Dodge happens usually immediately, but if you change guard and attack, you have 300ms delay with non-reflex guard heroes. So if you are playing lawbringer, you see warden doing shoulderbash so you have 700ms interrupt him. You change your guard to top, it is 300ms + 500ms = 800ms, which is already more than the 700ms, even without adding 200-300ms of reaction time.

Then, maybe, stay Top Guard as LB against Warden? You will want to do that anyway cause of his 500ms Top Light. I mean, there is a counterplay, but you refuse to accept it I think. Bad for you, I deal with Wardens just fine.

[Charmzzz]

Whatever Bro. I can do it pretty often, you cannot obviously. Dunno. Warden OP I guess. Lulz...

[Charmzzz]

Not saying it is op, just saying that it is very hard to counter (or even impossible) with some heroes. What I understood you play mainly pk and glad so obviously you will not have difficulties with it like the slower heroes.

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz/heroes

PK - Warden - Gladiator in that order. "Slower" is mostly related to dodge recovery, not attack speed. There are only very few heroes that do not have access to a 500ms attack, but we had that discussion.

No, I have very few issues with Warden on all my played Heroes. Even when Warden vs Warden (except I face Playfiends, man, that guy kicks my a*s with his constant SB feints...).

[Charmzzz]

Pk and glad can and will rekt the warden just by being assassins thanks to dodgeattacks and 500ms lights from every direction, and the warden can interrupt the sb with top light if he guards there and zone if not. Some heroes don't have access to 500ms attacks from neutral at all, and some, like the WL, only from sides which are not usable if you have to guard top against warden.

True. But those other Characters have other things going for them, don't forget that. WL is in a pretty bad spot duel-wise. No question. But that does not make Warden or his Shoulderbash OP in any way.