Mission Design Issues: Artificial Challenge ("The Call" Feedback) | Forums

[shobhit7777777]

I replayed 'The Call' several times and found it to be a frustrating chore of an experience to complete. The premise excited me to no end - assist Sam Fisher and I liked how it started out, but the insta-fail conditions and the ridiculous ramp up of difficulty sapped all joy out of me.

Note: I played this solo on regular difficulty, with the HUD entirely off. I have tried all camp entrances, used a vehicle as a trojan horse and knocked out the power. I haven't spared the diversion lures either. My issue with the mission extends beyond the heightened difficulty towards the restrictions on tactical flexibility.

Let me start of with the good: Getting the call from Sam Fisher and the premise of infiltrating the Base in pitch dark. Trying to sneak around the dark, infiltrating the camp for the first time was a very thrilling experience but it soon got old the sixth time attempting it.

WARNING: POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW



Instant Fail for Takedowns/Detection:

Ok, this makes sense for a Splinter Cell mission but this is Ghost Recon. Given the premise (Sam was already in) it made no sense for the Ghosts to sneak in without casualties for the game to suddenly flip the script and turn it into a scripted firefight.

The Ghosts are a Direct Action unit - they kill goons and blow **** up. Wildlands is built around this premise - kill, blow up anything and anyone you need to. The gameplay is focused on stealthy, coordinated takedowns and planned chaos. This mission throws that out the window with the instant fail parameters and makes the experience very frustrating.

This makes it a trial and error effort and there will be lots of trials because they've upped the Guard density and tweaked their patrols. There are more guards to deal with but your hands are tied. This does not make for fun gameplay the third or fourth time over.


Tactical Restrictions - No Scope for Strategy

Due to the instant fail and No takedown restrictions, you are severely handicapped. This is difficulty to play and not in a fun way, where you relish the challenge of solving a tactical puzzle.

The mission forces you to cheese your way through...spamming flares, diversion lures etc. It also forces you to adopt the "safest" tactics which are often the cheesiest ones. Given the fact that this mission involves a lot of trial and error...it becomes super annoying and frustrating having your hands tied.

It also doesn't make sense given the context of the mission. If Sam is already in....why can't the Ghosts silently take the UNIDAD out? Why are UNIDAD casualties suddenly an issue?? especially since you've been slaughtering them all year long. If we can silently clear out the encampment...how does it matter if we kill the enemies? The Ghosts sole objective is taking enemies out.


No Checkpoints:

The mission essentially is comprised of 3 stages:

1. Sneak In
2. Defend Sam
3. Exfiltrate with Sam

Each sequence requires considerable time and effort, yet there are no checkpoints in between. This is hugely frustrating and I cannot fathom how this greenlit. If you do manage to sneak in, you have to defend Sam against UNIDAD hordes and once the hack is complete....infinite Attack Helicopters. You die towards the end? Too bad...start all over.

This is poor mission design and an amateurish mistake. I expect this from part time modders not professional designers working at Ubisoft.


UNIDAD Response:

In the second and third phase....the mission is a cactus enema. I'm playing Solo so it's already a little painful dealing with a horde and then you throw in a gaggle of Attack helis that keep on respawning and it's ****ing annoying.

It is not fun battling helicopters. In this mission AND in the vanilla game. It's downright ******ed to have an infinite wave of helis coming at you. I moved through dense wooded areas and no dice...couldn't shake him. Shot 3 of them down and 2 instantly respawned.

In which world is that^ fun?


Feedback:

Swift, Silent and Deadly:

The Ghosts should not have any takedown restrictions. As much as I love the 'Splinter Cell' theme...this is Ghost Recon and I'm not a fan of trial and error experiences. As long as the alarm isn't raised, the player should be allowed to kill/KO enemies

It's less frustrating and allows room for some error. Sure, triggering an alert could lead to mission failure, that would be acceptable in a 'Splinter Cell' themed mission. However, the complete inability to take enemies out makes the mission a chore. Especially when there is no good reason to go 'Non-lethal'.

It also allows for more approaches. Not being able to take out sentries narrows down the gameplay to a serious degree. It unties the player from the AI routines and allows him/her more freedom to explore and act out a plan.

Most importantly, it saves the player from a potential alert. If you're sneaking around and are about to be spotted, taking the threat out allows you to remain undetected....inability to do so leads to a mission failure and a complete restart.

I wouldn't mind a No-kill restriction IF there were checkpoints, slightly lesser number of guards and if it made sense from a narrative standpoint.


A Sensible Premise:

The mission's context didn't make much sense. Why would Sam ask the Ghosts to sneak in all the way and THEN initiate a hack which would trigger an alarm? The mission should make sense within the context of a Ghost Recon game.

The Ghosts are a 4 man direct action team....and Sam Fisher should've called them in to arrange for assistance during an infil/exfil. The Ghosts should've been asked to :

1. Take out the jammer (Not the generator - a power cut would stop Sam's hacking attempt) so Sam's gear remains operational
2. Take out key enemy personnel - Sentries, Snipers etc.
3. Quietly steal a vehicle to arrange an exfil
4. Abduct an enemy commander

Doing things that Sam personally would've had a hard time doing.


Room for Failure, Room for Preparation:

The UNIDAD alert kicks in the moment Sam initiates the hack...and this is where the mission goes downhill completely. Instead of having it scripted, allow the player some time or control over WHEN the hack is initiated.

This gives the player room to prepare the area with mines, place his teammates and take out UNIDAD units within the base, before re-enforcements come rolling in.

Furthermore, insta-fail should've been dropped in favour of escalation. IF the player is detected, the base is alerted and the game THEN goes into horde mode - now you have to go loud and fight off incoming waves of UNIDAD troops. It should've been a consequence of a ****-up rather than a scripted event.

[Gmoneymozart]

At the very least cqc kills should have been allowed. But maybe it’s a programming issue and they don’t have the tools in place to distinguish between cqc and just not being seen? So if they go the not being seen route people would just shoot everyone taking away from the sam fisher vibe.

I agree with the spawning but then again that’s always been my grip with these Ubisoft’s games (wildlands, the division). There’s too much emphasis on respawning enemies. There’s no default “base” where enemies can come from and with specific missions like this one a different approach should have been used.

It really should have been a few steps with infiltrating some bases gathering intel. Maybe clearing the way as sam sneaks in somewhere. Stealthing in together.

It is what it is though. It was mildly enjoyable. And it gets me excited for e3 and the new splinter cell reveal.

[KingSpawn1979]

Very well written Criticism. I agree on several Points. In a Movie you would say it has a bad Script.
I have to sneak in, remain unseen, without Casualties (I personally liked that Part), just to let Sam alert the whole Army one Moment later.
As you described, some more detailed Assistance for Sam would've been nice. That Firefight and the loud Exfil wasn't a good Decision imho.

[Megalodon26]

I agree that the mission could have been planned better, by allowing us to quietly infiltrate the base, eliminating any roaming patrols along the way, as long as no alarms are raised. Then once the hack is started you have something like three or four minutes to clear the area, quietly, before heavy reinforcements arrive. If you are too slow, or get spotted, then you are forced into a firefight in order to escape. And since it's Unidad, helicopters would eventually be called in, and not just immediately appear.. To me, that sounds like a mission that gives you options, and would be something that I would choose to play over.

[Kane_sg]

Very well structured. Good analysis and thought out comment.

Read this, dev. Ffs.

I think I'll just let that fcking goggles go. What a freaking abnormal mission. What's next at this rate? Drive a truck while getting chased by armored cars and attack chopper without being allowed to shoot them?

[shobhit7777777]

Thanks all. This mission was supremely annoying and I don't think I'll bother with it anymore.

Very well written Criticism. I agree on several Points. In a Movie you would say it has a bad Script.
I have to sneak in, remain unseen, without Casualties (I personally liked that Part), just to let Sam alert the whole Army one Moment later.
As you described, some more detailed Assistance for Sam would've been nice. That Firefight and the loud Exfil wasn't a good Decision imho.

A bad script indeed. It doesn't do justice to the gameplay and basically shines a spotlight on ALL the game's flaws - from the lack of Squad AI commands to the annoying UNiDAD Heli spam

[DanHibikiFanXM]

Could not agree more. This new mission was frustrating and generally not a lot of fun.

[AI BLUEFOX]

As usual, Shobhit, is on point. Yes there should be the two checkpoints and not being able to complete stealth takedowns as part of the mission is a strange choice.

In addition to Shobhit's excellent suggestions, while I don't think playing as Fisher would sit well, because fans of that franchise would feel obligated to buy Wildlands for that alone, I'd have had his character an integral part of the stealth entry. Perhaps by the player setting him targets to takedown using the syncshot command, or him indicating targets he wants taken out as suggested in the post.

[DexLuther]

As usual, Shobhit, is on point. Yes there should be the two checkpoints and not being able to complete stealth takedowns as part of the mission is a strange choice.

No it isn't. The Ghost motto is "Swiftly, Silently, Invisibly."

Ghosts have missions where they have to slip in, complete a mission and then slip out. Leaving a trail of dead bodies behind you would lead the enemy to know someone had been there, which may lead them to uncover whatever it is the Ghosts did.

Proof of this is there are missions in the base game that require you to not be detected.

If the mission was to plant a bomb to take out some important person, then taking out enemies would tell them that someone had been there, which would cause them to search the base and possibly discover the bomb you planted. The bomb would fail to take out that important person.

If the mission is to get information of someone's location, hen taking out enemies would tell them that someone had been there, which would cause them to search the base and possibly move the target's location. Goodluck taking out that VIP when they change their location as a precaution to your suspected intrusion.



The mission is hard, yes, but it's completely doable if you make use of your tools like the diversion lures.

[GiveMeTactical]

I am going to go get me some pop corn, sit in my corner, patiently I might add, and wait for the Gud Players to come tell explain what you guys are doing wrong and what is the right way to approach this mission