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    The Division 2's Light Zone



    Here you go, Demiz3r

    DISCLAIMER

    Before progressing, I want to pass on a disclaimer: This thread is assuming that The Division 2 will have a Light Zone (And also assuming that lot of mechanics from Division 1 will return in Division 2). For all we know, the entire game could be one big Dark Zone. I wanted to start at end game because I assume Division 2's 1-30 or whatever the level cap is, will run similar to Division 1's 1-30.

    This thread may blur the lines between suggestions and general discussion, but mods please keep this in general discussion. Also, to keep as much focus on The Light Zone, I won't be talking about game play mechanics that much, like skills, gear talents, weapon handling, UI, etc, or if I do, it'll be brief or vague. Otherwise, this is purely a discussion on what The Division 2's Light Zone would need in order to be successful, based on what I gathered from reading the forums and playing other games. Let's begin. TL;DR at the bottom.

    I figured if I were to make this thread, the best time would be now.

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    Agents,

    On March 8th, 2018, we were shown the future of Division 1: it doesn't exist. If you have been following The Light Zone thread, you should understand how much we have fought to bring life into Division 1's Light Zone @ end game. This thread is a continuation of that thread, just in the vain of Division 2. Unfortunately in regards to that thread, we have been defeated.... or have we?

    Let's talk about End Game... where the real game of The Division truly begins. I will assume that Division 2's setting takes place "mid-crisis", like Division 1. Not occurring before and not post-apocalyptic. Even the DLC in Division 1 doesn't advance the game world in the favor of Division agents. The factions teaming up only proves that the conditions have gotten worse.

    It's no secret that Division 1's Light Zone / free roaming / non-linear gameplay is trash @ end game. It's why "PvEDZ" is a hot topic in Division 1. The goal of The Light Zone thread was to try to get the devs to make The Light Zone like the DZ, with non-linear gameplay including Landmarks, updated loot tables for the various crates around the zone, more mob density in low and high places.

    We thought of almost everything: reworking HVTs into becoming the landmarks themselves and putting them on a daily cool down, making gear in the DZ have higher base values, but despite the number of replies and views that The Light Zone thread gained, and with the help from the good men Amp and WV, we did not see any improvement to Division 1's LZ when Division 1's birthday stream was had (other than the change to exotic drops from the LZ bosses)..... which leads us to Division 2.

    Division 2's End Game cannot suffer the same fate. It cannot rely on players replaying the same missions over and over to sustain a sizeable player count, and it DEFINITELY cannot rely on everyone being okay with hopping into whatever Dark Zone Division 2 will have. These are suicide missions, and we all know it. I've played many games that have encouraged exploration: Dragon Age, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Subnautica even. These games have main missions or objectives, sure, but the fun in these games, imo, is when you're not doing the main objectives because the games reward your for going off the beaten path - revealing treasure opportunities, hidden caves or hidden encounters. You are given a raw, unscripted gameplay experience.

    Division 2's Light Zone @ end game should take pages from these books.

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    Everything dropping Everywhere vs Targeted Grinding


    Let's start with a controversial topic, but hear me out:

    If Division 2 had Raids, would you want Raid loot to drop outside of Raids?

    What I'm saying is Division 2's Light Zone should have a targeted grinding system over an everything dropping everywhere system. A targeted grinding system would inadvertently create incentives to do activities while also shaving down the RNG. Right now, everything drops everywhere. I understand why this system is liked, because it allows the player to do what he or she so pleases to get end-game loot, but... does anyone really care? Measure the amount of RNG you're stacked up against because of this.

    Division 2 should lock certain items, mainly Exotics and if they bring back Gear Sets, behind multiple activities of the same type. For example: a Division 2 landmark in the LZ should have a list of exclusive exotics that only drop from it, but in return, there are more multiple landmarks. You'd still be fighting RNG, but you wouldn't be fighting horrible RNG, because the exotic pool is smaller, therefore your chances of getting the exotic you want from that list is higher. Roaming Named enemies should have their own collective, yet exclusive exotic loot table. So on and so forth.

    When Barret's vest got first introduced, we were all banging our heads on the brick walls of Lexington until our heads bled. Why? Because Massive introduced an incentive to do so. It eventually became the most hated mission in the game, which I believe was because Barret's Vest was only put behind ONE LINEAR activity. Exotic Caches, an incentive, got introduced in 1.6 and put behind 3 Legendary Missions, Weekly Assignment, Survival Assignment, Dark Zone leader boards, and Incursions, which are all activities, or features activities that needed to be completed.

    The places where exotic caches can be obtained show somewhat of a balance: they're not "everywhere" but you have multiple options to obtain this one item. Exotic or other prestigious loot in Division 2 should follow the execution of exotic caches in Division 1. Capitalizing on this distributed exclusivity makes for a more interesting experience, because the facets of the game as whole would be explored.

    In the end, this is all debatable and I'm mainly talking about Exotics and Classifieds if they return. This targeted grinding would also apply to.....

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    Tombs / Lost Sectors


    Not everyone is on board with group content, nor does consoles have a chat box. That's right, I'm looking at you, solo only guys. (I'm one of them, some of the time.)

    So, Division 2 should introduce its own Tombs / Lost Sectors, a middle ground between missions and Raids / Incursions. Medium sized dungeon-like areas housed by mobs that protect a chest or chests located "at the back of the room." Although linear in design, they would be apart of the free roaming world. They are not missions. No need to match make, or anything. Scaling / game play of the mobs would be different from the normal world, to provide a challenge for both groups and solo players, but if completed successfully, the chests would reward you with appropriate end game loot. None of of that greens and blue only BS in the crates around the LZ in Division 1. At end game, loot from these guys would have some competition on Raid gear, or gear sets - whatever the heck Massive does, but I think Raid gear should always have the leg up.

    Again, this is all debatable and depends on if Massive decides on a more linear gear hierarchy system, akin to Destiny, or do what they did in Division 1 regarding gear drops.

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    Public Events


    The picture is from Dragon Age: Inquisition, which isn't an MMO but it sure does play like one, gameplay-wise.

    The Division 2 needs "dragons"

    What I mean by that is Division 2's Light Zone needs some sort of public event where players meet other random players in a PVE situation to take down a "dragon", or a helicopter, or a mini APC. Maybe it's not a "dragon." Maybe it's just a wave of NPCs. Point is, there is no interaction between Division agents in a GIANT city where THOUSANDS of other Division agents exist, outside of the DZ and if you matchmake for missions, and of course if you invite someone to your party. This is more of an MMO thing, but since Central Park, the best place for public events, is not a thing due to its dumb lore, Division 2 can bring this to the table.

    You walk around a street corner (or have some sort of seamless entrance animation like when you hop the fence to get into the Dark Zone), and bam, you're greeted with 5-6 other solo agents or maybe even groups, fighting off waves of enemies or some sort of immobile vehicle spawn. Maybe sections of the city are "failing" or are in "critical" condition, like that one E3 trailer shows, and you meet up with other agents to bring stability to said sections. Maybe AI Division agents have gone rogue outside of the DZ and you have to "take care" of them (Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet has AI players you PVP with in its PVE zones. They heal, revive, and buff. It's crazy). And with Public Events, you now have another source for targeted grinding.

    Here's exactly what a "dragon" could look like in Division 2



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    Spontaneous Events



    West Side Piers is a great jumping off point. A problem with WSP, imo, is that it is a bit unnatural. NPCs can spawn behind you from a place you were standing 10 seconds ago, even in the middle of the street! In the world of The Division, Division agents are the police, right (more or less)? Outside of the DZ, of course.

    What if an NPC needs to be escorted a few blocks away or to an entirely different part of town? What if a faction war breaks out? What if NPC factions deliberately shut off the power to a block or camp housing civilians and you have to restore power back? And then have to fight the NPCs off from invading these homes? There'd have to be a couple of different types of events that occur. As long as you provide a decent loot table (again, more sources for targeted grinding), these events won't ever get stale, imo.

    Public Events and Spontaneous Events could be one in the same, so that's up for discussion.

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    Landmarks / Strongholds & Roaming Named Enemies


    You gotta do it. I don't care if they are smaller than the ones that will be in the Dark Zone, landmarks NEED to be in the Light Zone part of the game. Put these landmarks on a cool down timer longer than the DZ ones, whatever you have to do in order for them to simultaneously exist along side the Dark Zone landmarks. Now, the roaming named enemies in Division 1 are technically Landmarks, if you think about it. It's just that the quality of them do not match the quality of the actual landmarks in the dark zone. There are no lootable chests and div tech boxes, for example.

    HVTs are not worth the return. Landmarks that function similar to HVTs would be better, imo, especially if these landmarks are on a daily timer. Roaming bosses will return, no doubt, but there needs to be more of them in different areas - subways and roof tops, to encourage exploration and discourage fast traveling (in a good way)

    You might think "what would be the difference between a landmark and a "lost sector?" This could be enemy types, enemy mechanics (maybe NPCs gives each other buffs), environmental mechanics, loot tables, and of course difficulty. Another topic that is up for discussion.

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    Channel Survival


    I asked you guys why you all liked Survival. The most common similarities among the answers that I noticed were the following:

    • The game mode favors skill over gear
    • Consumables and clothing mean something
    • Gear is always useful
    • Sense of progression
    • Game world feels dangerous

    Division 2 should look to Survival in Division 1 as a resource for making its Light Zone a better Light Zone. Clothing should have (re-rollable) passive stats, like increased accolade XP (Take that BS off kneepads!), increased currency / material drops, increased kill xp, increased weapon proficiency xp if that becomes a thing, etc. Maybe they incorporate the blizzard in Survival as constant mechanic in The Division 2's live game and in the blizzard, your movement speed is lowered. The better clothing you have, the less effective the blizzard will be on your movement speed. Bring back Scavenger and add it as a passive stat on clothing items that increases the quality of loot that drops for you (better rolls on drops).

    Same with Consumables. I often forget to use them in Division 1 because my gear pretty much does everything on its own. Increase the quality of their buffs, their buff timer and shorten their cool down timer, for example. Allow the Energy Bar or whatever it gets replaced with, to be the only option for removing a status, aside from Immunizer if it returns. The med kit cleansing is useful, no doubt, but that further pushes the potential of consumables away. Maybe an Energy Drink provides a temporary accuracy buff, idk. These buffs would have to be useful without breaking the game and you can get a lot more creative with these IF YOU SEPARATE PVE AND PVP BALANCING.

    The sense of progression depends on how Massive will implement the gear system. In Survival, the closer you get to the DZ, the better the loot, with the DZ dropping nothing but Purples (unless greens and blues drop in there if you get there early. I never bolted to the DZ upon spawning) and High Ends are only obtained through crafting. I don't know if you'd want high ends in the end game to only be obtained through crafting. Maybe high end materials become more important for build optimization? Instead of credits, high end materials are needed to reroll a stat.

    And Skill over Gear. I assume this is a common feeling because if you die in Survival, you lose everything, so you HAVE to be good in order to survive. In the actual game, that's not so much the case. How could Massive finesse the feeling of skill over gear in the Light Zone? In Survival, you are rewarded with presumably better gear because of your skill, right? Again, is it because of the perma-death breathing over your shoulder? Is it even worth trying? Up for discussion.

    Ultimately, it's best to incorporate things that were apart of Division 1's DLC into the base game of Division 2, and favor more story DLC content over game mode DLC content.

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    For God's sake, scale the loot crates!


    We have to blame the DZ for the horrible state the devs left the Light Zone in. As pictured above, this is currently what the LZ loot crates drop in WT5. That's right, WT5. Imagine walking into a subway, fighting off mobs that match your gear quality, finding a loot crate and out comes an Exotic Weapon Mod or a piece of a Blueprint,THIS WILL ENCOURAGE PLAYERS TO EXPLORE THE GAME WORLD. Do not leave it up to the DZ. As long as you provide exclusive incentives to go into the DZ, and exclusive incentives to stay in the LZ, I don't think anyone will complain. Incentives should not be limited to gameplay only.

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    New types of Incentives



    Now there is room for new types of incentives - vanity back pack skins that can transmogrify your actual back pack, clothing items that you can manually change the color of, blueprints that can be found from looting crates. Classified Weapons, if classifieds return. Even Exotic Mods; these things could further push the boundaries of build diversity!

    The more incentives you create, the more flexible you can get with a targeted grinding system. Exotics could drop with mod slots occupied, like how marksman rifles drop with Worn scopes. Gear can drop with mod slots occupied with decent mods, exotic mods even. Can I get an Exotic Flashlight mod that has a pretty good chance to set Blind on a target if they wander in its cone radius? What about an Exotic Thermal Scope that increases my crit chance / crit damage when zoomed?

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    Raids


    I originally had Raids in this spot, but decided to remove it because Raids are linear missions rather than free roaming activities. Ultimately, Raids are one of the most community requested features, so I know it's something we'd all agree on. This thread is more about the free roaming of Division 2's end game, but it was worth mentioning.

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    TL;DR

    We. Can. Not. Have. A. Divsion 1. Light. Zone. Fiasco. In. Division 2.


    /arm chair developer

    And now we wait. Also, I am sensible and respectable of the amount of work and money it takes to make games. Also also, remember: this is all up for discussion. You don't have to agree with any of this. We are simply trying to save Division 2's Light Zone before it is DOA. If there is anything in this post that you feel will not benefit Division 2's LZ, or you feel as if you have some good ideas as well, please point it out / post it! This thread is for everyone, but mainly for the devs.
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  2. #2
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    Secrets!


    The secret mission that came with 1.8 was best part about the update, imo, and probably the most refreshing thing added to the game in a long time. It was the only LZ free roaming activity that was added to the game since launch, believe it or not. Or whenever LZ bosses were added and you don't count season pass drops.

    Anyways, It was a break from all of the linearity that The Division has in its LZ. There was no objective but there were still rewards at the end and we were left with some lore surrounding The Division universe. We were given something that allowed us to genuinely enjoy roaming the game world. Division 2 should capitalize on this. More secrets, both solo-able and group-able. Imagine roaming the LZ and you throw a nade in a random chimney somewhere that blows open a door to something, idk.

    This will keep players engaged in the world and if players find just one secret, they will be eager to scavenger the land for more. Much like the treasure map patch, you can provide exclusive incentives for completing them. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

    Referencing this post
    ____________________________

    Companions


    Have you drooled yet?

    This would be toooooooooooons of fun, no? This would be more of a solo-only thing, because I can't imagine a group of four all walking around with dogs. There'd be a lot of commotion on screen. Take a page from Farcry 5.

    Companions in The Division could act as diversions, or sniff out resources like fabric or water. They can have their own stats or gear because at this point, if I, as a player, can simultaneously tank shots from a lot of NPCs and a helicopter in Clear Sky, why can't a dog do it?

    Referencing this post.
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    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    you know my good sir I applaud you for this thread (it should be stickied right away .

    PS: you beat me to it I was going to say Public events and (lost sector/dungeon type area's for the light zone) coming from an ESO and Destiny 1 back ground those things are essential in the P v E worlds.

    As foir raid/group events and gear content exclusive to them yes totally agree again coming from Destiny 1, I have no argument here.

    Please for the love of god if we have survival remove that stupid timer.let it be a survival game.

    PPS: Landmarks are essential if it is going that way.
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    CoOp_Gordon's Avatar Senior Member
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    Merphee, I'm so impressed by your vision and forward thinking that I have decided to appoint you Overall Director in charge of the future development of TD2 at Ubisoft.

    Obviously you understand that TD2 has actually been in development for 2 years, and I can't undo all the progress and direction that has been made to date, but I will ensure that the development post release can evolve into a wide-encompassing and satisfying world with an interesting and challenging end game for both PvE and PvP.

    Or at least I would do if I was in charge....
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  5. #5
    XahRith16's Avatar Senior Member
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    Well Done on such an in depth thread.
    I hope the Devs take something from it.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by Light-Zone2.0 Go to original post
    you know my good sir I applaud you for this thread (it should be stickied right away .

    PS: you beat me to it I was going to say Public events and (lost sector/dungeon type area's for the light zone) coming from an ESO and Destiny 1 back ground those things are essential in the P v E worlds.

    As foir raid/group events and gear content exclusive to them yes totally agree again coming from Destiny 1, I have no argument here.

    Please for the love of god if we have survival remove that stupid timer.let it be a survival game.

    PPS: Landmarks are essential if it is going that way.


    How is ESO these days? I wanted to check it out.

    Originally Posted by CoOp_Gordon Go to original post
    Merphee, I'm so impressed by your vision and forward thinking that I have decided to appoint you Overall Director in charge of the future development of TD2 at Ubisoft.

    Obviously you understand that TD2 has actually been in development for 2 years, and I can't undo all the progress and direction that has been made to date, but I will ensure that the development post release can evolve into a wide-encompassing and satisfying world with an interesting and challenging end game for both PvE and PvP.

    Or at least I would do if I was in charge....


    I thought I heard them say that it was just a "small team" working on Division 2? Or did I imagine that?
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  7. #7
    Could be to late for the thread if they are really working on the game for 2 years now.
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    Originally Posted by Zimbo78 Go to original post
    Could be to late for the thread if they are really working on the game for 2 years now.
    Possible, no doubt about that. This entire thread could be one giant waste of time. Rofl.
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  9. #9
    RushLoongHammer's Avatar Senior Member
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    Another staple post by Merphee.
    Fully fleshed out PvE endgame game with non-linear PvE as the vehicle; you have all my upvotes :P
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  10. #10
    Thanks man another sensible thread I agree with you.
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