Revenge, or rather, the lack thereof. | Forums

[p0wn3rki11]

The Problem
Revenge is worthless. I know it, you know it, we all know it. There is no secret about it. If you are getting ganked the only thing revenge will get you is a free auto parry, provided you time it right and they dont use unblockables or stuns like a punch. That is also only if they dont hit you with a feat that one shots you and you cant get out of because of the animation. Revenge used to be a problem with players abusing revenge attack and revenge focused gear...IN SEASON ONE. As it stands revenge gear is not nearly as good as it was and no longer stacks with attack gear, and what with revenge's effectiveness nerfed to the ground, the most you will do is buy you three more seconds in a gank. Maybe you will kill one of them, but as it stands even low tier players know to time their attacks so they do not swing into the auto parry. So what do we do?

Suggestions
First suggestion I have is make revenge-mode players unparryable. Now stop...don't ree just yet. One of the biggest things revenge is supposed to do is get people off of you, allow you to turn back the battle and give you a chance in a 2/3/4 v 1. This is immediately circumvented by players just going "turtle mode" and parrying or dodging everything you do till the revenge wears off. And in the case of 3 or 4 v 1's this will just make it so that one keeps your attention while the others beat the snot out of you. Taking away the ability to parry revenge mode will at least allow the player to be more aggressive while still giving the option to the gankers to back off.

The second suggestion is less so important, but an idea nonetheless. Scaling revenge. As it stands the game can tell when you are being attacked by more than one person, so utilizing the same idea to give you a stronger revenge based on how many people are trying to kill you. This obviously would have some problems with abusability and possibly not working at all, so implimentation of anything like this would need thorough testing. I do not have much else on this idea apart from adding buffs like unblockable in a 4v1 or something, its more of something thrown at the wall to see if it would stick, so to speak.

The third idea that comes to mind is along with fixing revenge in the way it works would be also fixing how it is gained. It has happened to all of us, you are 1v1 against someone and the fight goes long and hard (giggity) then they get revenge and kill you. Or maybe the opposite, you are getting ganked and despite your best efforts you dont get revenge, even though you had the entire team on top of you. Tweaking how revenge is gained, both scaling it to better fit the situation (1v1, 2v1, etc.) and fixing how it is earned such as making revenge gained when struck by multiple attackers even more, rather than expect us to try and block them all.

Lastly, and this is more of a side thing than a suggestion, fixing revenge's inconsistent "immunity to stun". I am not sure how else to explain this really, some things can stun revenge at some times and not at others, sometimes a conq shield charge will throw them to the ground, sometimes not. Inconsistency in something like this really can't be a good thing at all. So making it consistent across the board, or at least more transparent as to what can't stop you, is needed.

Conclusion

If you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read this. This has been something that I personally, have had an issue with the game for some time...along with the latency issues it has. I tried to be as detailed as I could with the ideas, and while I don't have exact numbers, they are only ideas. I would love to see revenge change the gank meta for good, not necessarily go back to year one (aka: get revenge and team wipe in 1 zone), but make it so that at least there is an option to turn the tide in a gank. Agree with me or not, your opinion is your own. Thanks for reading.

[xAnaToMx]

The Problem
Revenge is worthless. I know it, you know it, we all know it. There is no secret about it. If you are getting ganked the only thing revenge will get you is a free auto parry, provided you time it right and they dont use unblockables or stuns like a punch. That is also only if they dont hit you with a feat that one shots you and you cant get out of because of the animation. Revenge used to be a problem with players abusing revenge attack and revenge focused gear...IN SEASON ONE. As it stands revenge gear is not nearly as good as it was and no longer stacks with attack gear, and what with revenge's effectiveness nerfed to the ground, the most you will do is buy you three more seconds in a gank. Maybe you will kill one of them, but as it stands even low tier players know to time their attacks so they do not swing into the auto parry. So what do we do?

Suggestions
First suggestion I have is make revenge-mode players unparryable. Now stop...don't ree just yet. One of the biggest things revenge is supposed to do is get people off of you, allow you to turn back the battle and give you a chance in a 2/3/4 v 1. This is immediately circumvented by players just going "turtle mode" and parrying or dodging everything you do till the revenge wears off. And in the case of 3 or 4 v 1's this will just make it so that one keeps your attention while the others beat the snot out of you. Taking away the ability to parry revenge mode will at least allow the player to be more aggressive while still giving the option to the gankers to back off.

The second suggestion is less so important, but an idea nonetheless. Scaling revenge. As it stands the game can tell when you are being attacked by more than one person, so utilizing the same idea to give you a stronger revenge based on how many people are trying to kill you. This obviously would have some problems with abusability and possibly not working at all, so implimentation of anything like this would need thorough testing. I do not have much else on this idea apart from adding buffs like unblockable in a 4v1 or something, its more of something thrown at the wall to see if it would stick, so to speak.

The third idea that comes to mind is along with fixing revenge in the way it works would be also fixing how it is gained. It has happened to all of us, you are 1v1 against someone and the fight goes long and hard (giggity) then they get revenge and kill you. Or maybe the opposite, you are getting ganked and despite your best efforts you dont get revenge, even though you had the entire team on top of you. Tweaking how revenge is gained, both scaling it to better fit the situation (1v1, 2v1, etc.) and fixing how it is earned such as making revenge gained when struck by multiple attackers even more, rather than expect us to try and block them all.

Lastly, and this is more of a side thing than a suggestion, fixing revenge's inconsistent "immunity to stun". I am not sure how else to explain this really, some things can stun revenge at some times and not at others, sometimes a conq shield charge will throw them to the ground, sometimes not. Inconsistency in something like this really can't be a good thing at all. So making it consistent across the board, or at least more transparent as to what can't stop you, is needed.

Conclusion

If you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read this. This has been something that I personally, have had an issue with the game for some time...along with the latency issues it has. I tried to be as detailed as I could with the ideas, and while I don't have exact numbers, they are only ideas. I would love to see revenge change the gank meta for good, not necessarily go back to year one (aka: get revenge and team wipe in 1 zone), but make it so that at least there is an option to turn the tide in a gank. Agree with me or not, your opinion is your own. Thanks for reading.

I would agreed on this 100%, problem is it would become a haven for cheaters, believe it or not this game has a huge issue with cheaters. People say they don't cheat and yet somehow magical things happen when someone that you never played against will read everything you do, you can't get a hit on a guy because he blocks , and counter gb all the time. I think they are very much aware of it and hence they leave it as is.

[p0wn3rki11]

You make a valid point, but that is a different problem altogether. If developers stopped balancing things because of cheaters nothing would be done, they will always be there. In my experiences i have more issues with smurfs(people who make alt accounts just so they get matched up against noobs because they suck at the game) But yes, there are some cheater issues and that is a seperate matter to deal with, I am glad you agree with me though, and that im not just spewing words for the sake of.

[xAnaToMx]

You make a valid point, but that is a different problem altogether. If developers stopped balancing things because of cheaters nothing would be done, they will always be there. In my experiences i have more issues with smurfs(people who make alt accounts just so they get matched up against noobs because they suck at the game) But yes, there are some cheater issues and that is a seperate matter to deal with, I am glad you agree with me though, and that im not just spewing words for the sake of.

You know, you will always get unbalance in matchmaking where a gear score 180 player jumps in a match with gears core 12 players. I mean it's terrible..it should lock you out from being able to choose a high gear score character in a match with low ones, there should be brackets for it.

[UbiJurassic]

Thanks for sharing the suggestion, p0wn3rki11! We've seen quite a few people say that Revenge is under-powered and have shown interest in seeing it buffed. I'll be sure to pas along your suggestion.

I'd love to hear what other players feedback on the idea.

[Col.Bullet]

I'm still on the fence about weather or not attack should scale differently in and out of revenge mode. Having to choose between a situational stat boost, a generally more viable build or something in between should however be an actual choice. And for the most part revenge just adds a few more seconds to your misery when ganked. It both fails to get you a second chance because of its relatively minor effect and, worst of all, doesn't function at all as the deterrent against it that it's supposed to be. A few encounters with it are generally enough to expose it's mechanics. And then it's either wait or attempted gb/ledge. And interrupts via light spam, nullifying the added defence.

On a sidenote: Feats on some characters that add revenge on successful hits seem rather lackluster from what I've seen. The gain appears barely noticeable. Maybe those should be taken into consideration too, for they at least sound interesting. Of course they seem like an advocate against straight up buffs to revenge, though.