Conqueror balance issues. | Forums

[ArchDukeInstinct]

As a WL fighting conq feels like im facing an evil doppelganger of myself with more powerful abilities.

And knowing he can shield bash me with total impunity is beyond frustrating.

*world's smallest violin plays*

[The.Witness.]

Thanks for the clarification. was seriously confused.




I don't see how zerk is worse than shaman. Shaman has no options against pk. Shaman can't crack conq. His zone beats anything she attempts to do and forward bash aggression prevents her from using bite/pounce. and her dodge/dash attacks are full block food. Gladiator's zone beats her mix up games and he generally prevents shaman from doing much mixing up due to his range and dodge bashes. A tier hero wise kensei prevents basically all with shaman due to how strong his dash is versus most mix ups and his range. Highlander in OF will literally ruin her. I could see her maybe doing decent against shinobi/warlord. Mainly because shin has no offensive options and warlords defensive game isn't the best.

She's exactly where she's at because of matchups. Something I don't know if you're considering. Raider's mix up is beat by dodging. And there are a lot of assassins above him. His speed is the other thing that keeps him down. Yes his dodge GB is good. But it's situational and can't be relied upon. LB's shove on block grants him nothing beyond poke damage and even that is negated by assassins because of deflect. Goki's HA is all he has. and considering how easily it can be played around it's not good enough to move his position. Not to mention his poor recovery both on some attacks and his dodges. Also his HA mechanic actually hurts him against some heros due to the double punishes they can land on him due to it.

Going off of that statement any hero who can easily access armor for trading is a good counter to shaman. So zerk deff is. Kensei as well (also cause of range and his dodge attack.)

I play a lot of Zerker, and even tho I agree that armor is a great tool against a PK, I can assure you that it changes nothing when u face a good PK. She'll simply time her zone to trade within your hits a, with no recovery post cancel, will not be touched at all if she gets her timing right. I've recently faced that good of a PK and I felt truly helpless. Meanwhile I think that a pounce cancel spamming shaman can somehow make a pk overreact and counter her that way.
Also, I don't understand how Shaman doesn't crack conq but Zerker do. 400ms aren't enough to open up conq and Zerker doesn't have any type or melee moves. Conq's game select zone neglects everything a zerker can do. The only way Zerker is a better match up against conq than shaman is, is if conq decides for some reason to go full agressive on zerker. Otherwise, Shaman will crack a conq more easily for sure.
Glad zone beats as much Zerker than it beats Shaman.
When it comes to Kensei, Zerker and Shaman are basically in the same spot since Zerker can't out damage a Kensei and basically needs to bait an attack or a parry. He can do that with is top UB, while she can do that with pounce cancel.
I agree with Highlander tho. But Shaman can still kinda compensate for that weakness thanks to the pounce and pouce cancel to open up the HL.
Meanwhile, Shaman completely annihilate shin with his insane range + speed of her dashed attacks, and when it comes to Warlord, once again, her pounce is a great tool.

Overall I think that our disagreement mainly comes from how much I think the pounce is effective while you seems to think it easily reactable and too much punishable.

I think Raider would benefit from having hyper armor on mid combo zone.
LB's shove is a really effective mix-up when below high level of play seems most "bad" players seems to consider it a 50/50, even if they can deflect it. Talking about deflecting it tho, LB can still mix up his game with heavys and catch a deflecting player.
I think the Goki's HA is stronger than what you suggest, although I don't know why they made that "bonus damage is not under HA" ****e on it ... Clearly dodges recovery and attack startup and recoverys are the baddest weakness of the Goki. I believe his hyper armor should allow him to trade a GB in those situations. Meaning that, if he ha HA up, he can dodge with no fear of a GB, since they will basically bounce off him. Same goes with attack startups and recoverys.

[Howard_T_J]

So which direction is that shove coming from so I can defect? Lol

Shaman pounce to me is way too easy to react to. Kensei and HL with as much movement as Orochi with better range and damage... I'm slightly insulted lol. I've had to learn to rely on parry more than deflect. That is kind of *** backwards for Orochi.

[Knight_Raime]

I play a lot of Zerker, and even tho I agree that armor is a great tool against a PK, I can assure you that it changes nothing when u face a good PK. She'll simply time her zone to trade within your hits a, with no recovery post cancel, will not be touched at all if she gets her timing right. I've recently faced that good of a PK and I felt truly helpless. Meanwhile I think that a pounce cancel spamming shaman can somehow make a pk overreact and counter her that way.
Also, I don't understand how Shaman doesn't crack conq but Zerker do. 400ms aren't enough to open up conq and Zerker doesn't have any type or melee moves. Conq's game select zone neglects everything a zerker can do. The only way Zerker is a better match up against conq than shaman is, is if conq decides for some reason to go full agressive on zerker. Otherwise, Shaman will crack a conq more easily for sure.
Glad zone beats as much Zerker than it beats Shaman.
When it comes to Kensei, Zerker and Shaman are basically in the same spot since Zerker can't out damage a Kensei and basically needs to bait an attack or a parry. He can do that with is top UB, while she can do that with pounce cancel.
I agree with Highlander tho. But Shaman can still kinda compensate for that weakness thanks to the pounce and pouce cancel to open up the HL.
Meanwhile, Shaman completely annihilate shin with his insane range + speed of her dashed attacks, and when it comes to Warlord, once again, her pounce is a great tool.

Overall I think that our disagreement mainly comes from how much I think the pounce is effective while you seems to think it easily reactable and too much punishable.

I think Raider would benefit from having hyper armor on mid combo zone.
LB's shove is a really effective mix-up when below high level of play seems most "bad" players seems to consider it a 50/50, even if they can deflect it. Talking about deflecting it tho, LB can still mix up his game with heavys and catch a deflecting player.
I think the Goki's HA is stronger than what you suggest, although I don't know why they made that "bonus damage is not under HA" ****e on it ... Clearly dodges recovery and attack startup and recoverys are the baddest weakness of the Goki. I believe his hyper armor should allow him to trade a GB in those situations. Meaning that, if he ha HA up, he can dodge with no fear of a GB, since they will basically bounce off him. Same goes with attack startups and recoverys.

conq has an answer to all of shaman's mix ups.
Zerk can HA unblockable conq's zone and full block feints.
Plus the 400ms HA light should interrupt a full block feint on reaction.
Basically put because zerker has easier access to faster attacks and has the ability to have armored unblockables he can trade with conq in his safest moments.

I'm pretty sure that assassins can dodge attack after a shove. if he goes for a light it's deflected and if it's a gb he bounces off. If LB switches his guard after shove he will likely get nothing.
A heavy after shove might work. But that's opporating on the idea that LB knows the assassin is going to try to deflect. It would have to be a read I think.

I'm not denying it's strength. I'm saying it alone doesn't make up for everything else that's bad about his kit.

[Arekonator]

I'm pretty sure that assassins can dodge attack after a shove. if he goes for a light it's deflected and if it's a gb he bounces off. If LB switches his guard after shove he will likely get nothing.
A heavy after shove might work. But that's opporating on the idea that LB knows the assassin is going to try to deflect. It would have to be a read I think.

I'm not denying it's strength. I'm saying it alone doesn't make up for everything else that's bad about his kit.

Most dodge attacks can beat both light and GB, some that start bit later into the dodge can get GBd out of. At my level (and i am not even good) i get most of damage out of shove when you predict the opponent punish and bait it out with heavy feint into GB/parry. Of course, when enemy decides to play it safe and just roll away after every shove every posibility to get damage in goes right out of the window and all you acomplish is interrupt chains and generally slow down the fight and make it more frustrating. Rolling away also doesnt present any problem for enemy (except being annoying), because lawbringer got pretty much zero OOS pressure.

[Tayllos]

You talked garbage about Conq. You got no ideea how nerfed he got, if you cant dodge him you're plainly bad. His heavies are delayed he can barely land one and only when he throws someone in a wall. After running shield bash he cant land a heavy anymore, he cant punish too much, its difficult to play conq in higher ranks. His tools are little and limited, shield bash is what saves him a little but it can be easily dodged, it can be punished if you got the skills. They should buff him a little to be able to punish a lil more. Shield bash doesnt even drain stamina, they stripped him of what he had good and left him with only 2-3 tricks, and only one that is actually helpfull in higher ranks. Just because you're bad against someone dont ask for nerfs if you got no ideea about something. Simply assuming is bad, getting your *** kicked and crying for nerf is bad again. Dont be a child, man up and get gud.

[Vrbas1]

I feel like Conq got buffed and nerfed at the same time.

His running shield bash no longer guarantees any damage (not even a light). His superior block is gone (even though he's advertised as defensive). He did get faster lights with more damage but I feel this was how he should have been at launch. Pretty much all he got was a safe zone. Everything else feels like fluff.

[SaschoS]

Every season is getting worse from f skins to faction warfare this game is getting more like a slot machine then a f skill based game. Like no level dudes coming to match and he just left-click spams me: WTF devs are you even test what you are making. Honestly you all together cannot outsmart bunch of kids that is where your brains at

[EIGHTYYARDS NYC]

Conq is perfect now. No buffs or nerds needed. Stop it people.

[Arekonator]

The fact that he is 100% safe vs some characters is hardly ok.