Member
1- The tracking on his caber toss is simply too much. At close range it's virtually almost impossible to dodge the kick late enough to escape from the mix-up. Real 50/50 here.
2- His crushing counter lights need to get the same property as warden when it comes to timing them. As off right now, Highlander lights can be use as a game select. I'm aware that, if you read into it you basically get a light parry, but still, this seems quite dumb to me.
3- The 300ms recovery on dodge when in offensive couple the the 300ms lights makes highlander an extremely cancerous hero. Agaisnt a lot of match up, all he can do all gmae is simply dodge when he sees something coming to him and react accordingly. If the opponent let's his attack fly, follow up the dodge with a kick for 40 damages, if he goes for another mix, go for a light to effectively neglect it.
Overall, the highlander buff was required. Those 3 points above, while not making them top tier in anyway, still feel off and badly design. Reduce the trckign and maybe change the light counter timing and buff his damage to make it still worth. Ans please get his dodge recovey when in offensive form a bit higher.
Senior Member
1) This tutorial on how to successfully dodge the Caber Toss begs to differ: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3jLf1uqTvl8Originally Posted by Trenk2009 Go to original post
You need to wait until you see the grab animation starting before you commit to a dodge. You can always roll away from the entire mind game and reset the fight which puts the Highlander at a disadvantage because it is harder for him to get going again. You can also smack him out of Offensive stance with a fast light.
2) The reason the timing is different is because Highlander's lights come out slower than Warden's top light. Therefore they have a slightly bigger window of time to do a crushing counter meaning you have to wait a tiny bit before spamming attacks on him when he whiffs his light. Alternatively just bait and easily parry his light.
Senior Member
Not really. If you let the kick fly it's stuffable with a light. and every hero sans 2 or 3 can walk backwards and throw a light to beat the mix up with a little spacing. Even if it was a real 50 50 it's still very easy to keep him out of offensive form if you're letting him get into it you really do deserve to be punished.
Pretty sure they have the same timing. There is start up delay for both heros on it. warden just seems faster because he can only do it from one direction. Where as with HL you have to factor in guard switch time along side the delay before it's active.
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Originally Posted by Vakris_One Go to original post
1) I've already seen this tutorial. But it's completely dumb. If I wait to see the grab animation to dodge then I'll simply hit the kick if he doesn't go for the grab. That's the principle of a 50/50. I need to guess if he's going to go for the full kick or switch for the grab.
2) I agree that's it should be easier than warden ones, but currently the window is not bigger, there's basically no window. You can throw an attack AFTER the highlander threw his light and STILL get crushing countered by it cuz your attack hit first. Which means that basically, the highlander doesn't always "time" the crushing counter it simply can counter without actually wanting it. That's dumb imo
Member
1) I should be punished cuz the highlander decided to go for something I can't simply prevent if I want to. Also there are plenty of situations where interrupting the mix up with a light simply isn't possible. Also also, it is a real 50/50.Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
2) No they dont. Warden can't crush counter if an attack is started after she launched her light. Highlander can. It happened to me many times, I trow an attack after he actually thres his, yet I get crushing countered cuz mine hit his first.
Senior Member
Proof beyond variks video has shown that it's beatable with what i've said. And of course it's not possible in every situation. That's why I said spacing.Originally Posted by Trenk2009 Go to original post
for honor has no 50 50's because of rolling away. I really wish people would stop using terms they don't understand.
I re checked the frame data that is on a spread sheet linked on the FH reddit. they both have the same start up time of 100ms. HL can be slightly longer in regards to how long it's active. But only by 100ms.
Senior Member
1) It's not a 50/50 if you can always roll away from it and reset the fight. 50/50 means you have no choice but to guess and get lucky. Rolling away gives him nothing and gives you a way out ergo not a 50/50 since you don't need to guess. You can opt out every time by rolling away.Originally Posted by Trenk2009 Go to original post
You can also avoid the whole thing and punish him if you have a dodge attack. Highlander vs a dodge attack character means his caber toss/kick mind game is rendered useless. Rock, paper, scissors. Some characters have hard counters against other characters. If you're playing a non-dodge attack character either light him out of offensive stance before he can kick/grab you, successfully dodge the grab, roll away or maintain good spacing and parry his Celtic curse to prevent him from quick transitioning into OF in your face.
There are a variety of options available.
2) Highlander cannot crushing counter you if his attack has already finished. You're either not waiting for his light to end or there's lag involved. He has to time it to get you, if he's just letting them fly and getting lucky then stop attacking him with lights and start feinting heavies and baiting a parry.
Senior Member
His Rework is bad in my eyes.
His damage is INSANE now!
They should have better worked on something that allows him to get less parried, so he can throw out his heavies.
Instead they just increased his damage insanely, while letting him still use only lights and his kick/cabertoss 50/50
He is viable now, but just in a "crippled" version of what he should be.
Senior Member
40 damage from slow heavies is considered "insane" nowadays? Huh, where were you when Zerk did 53 damage from his top heavy and could do one hell of an OOS punish that could all but insta-delete 110-115 HP heroes.
Considering Highlander needs to be in OF stance to pull off this "insane damage" I'd say it's fair enough. He is the character he should always have been since he got introduced.
P.S. If you can roll away for no damage it's not a 50/50 but don't tell anyone, it's a seeecret. Shhhh.
Member
Highlander moved into the A tier in dueling and soon he will move into the A tier in dominion and MAYBE tribute. People been studying and watching my gameplay with Highlander and realized OF stance camping is the way to go and light spamming isn't a real thing to beating him.
Highlander OF stance can play the turtle meta, just requires skill to do so, and once mastered he can seem like one of the better characters. High skill, high ceiling. Can't just, use him and bring out his full potential. but the reward for mastering him puts him in the viable column of the tier list because of his hidden potential, but his bugs that still exist in some of his moves provide inconsistency that won't allow him to reach the top.
