list of characters that i think need a debuffs and some that need buffs. | Forums

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Conq - His full block can be baited although I would slightly reduce the activation time from 300ms to 400ms as Conqs can spam the crap out of this move and abuse its easiness to pull off. It's essentially a much better version of Aramusha's blade blockade whereas it should be at the same level as Musha's blade blockade rather than an easy move to spam to get out of a tight situation or a gank.

Can I play your version of the game please, lol. On PC you can use Conq's full block on reaction to any 500ms attack (same as Blade Blockade) and it guarantees him a heavy from whichever direction his guard was prior to full block. Unlike Aramusha who has to keep his guard to top to try and guarantee his top heavy from BB, which is not always guarranteed unlike the Conq's heavy. Ara basically telegraphs his desire to use BB to make a heavy attack on you whereas Conq can whip his full block out at any time and receive a guaranteed heavy if successful.

What about my statement that it is a "better version of Musha's blade blockade" do you disagree with?

Unless The Flash himself recently got into For Honor and mains Conqueror, I find that highly unlikely. Even under perfect conditions, 0 input lag, 0 networking lag, you'd have to full block within 200ms to catch a 500ms attack on reaction. That just isn't going to happen with the vast majority of players.

And even if someone could actually do it on a consistent basis then they'd have no trouble parrying lights and getting more damage with a top heavy followup anyway.

Now I do agree that Conq's fullblock is better than Aramusha's blade blockade and that's exactly how it should be. Aramusha has faster attacks that do more damage and actually has a feign game. Conqueror's defensive tools should be objectively better, end of story.

Oh and PS unless you love getting guard broken then don't use full block stance against ganks, use the zone attack...

[Vakris_One]

Unless The Flash himself recently got into For Honor and mains Conqueror, I find that highly unlikely. Even under perfect conditions, 0 input lag, 0 networking lag, you'd have to full block within 200ms to catch a 500ms attack on reaction. That just isn't going to happen with the vast majority of players.

And even if someone could actually do it on a consistent basis then they'd have no trouble parrying lights and getting more damage with a top heavy followup anyway.

Now I do agree that Conq's fullblock is better than Aramusha's blade blockade and that's exactly how it should be. Aramusha has faster attacks that do more damage and actually has a feign game. Conqueror's defensive tools should be objectively better, end of story.

Oh and PS unless you love getting guard broken then don't use full block stance against ganks, use the zone attack...

All I can say is that is my experience recently. It is highly annoying seeing most Conqs whip out fullblock when pressured and either get lucky by catching the opponent's 500ms lights or genuinley reacting to them. Maybe I'm getting lucky when I play Conq, maybe I'm too predictable when playing against him, all could be true. That being said, fullblock isn't actually what makes the reworked Conqueror a bit of a cancer. His zone and his ability to keep you in OOS indefinitely is.

I'm not someone to suggest in-depth nerfs and buffs because I don't live and breath this game but I can say that Conq has become one of the most annoying characters to fight because of the way he can pressure you when going on the offensive while also having the tools to be a defensive wall - he's pretty much got the best of worlds.

RE: Aramusha. Conq has a pretty decent feint game himself so it's not like he "doesn't have a feint game". The thing is, Conq has better offensive and defensive tools than Aramusha as well as one hell of an OOS pressure game. It's not really very balanced when you look at those two. "Faster attacks that do more damage", yeah if you can land them in a gank because no decent player will let Aramusha do that in a 1v1. I'd take Conq's objectively slower attacks but completely superior kit any day of the week.

[Baturai]

Berzerker: Needs more Stamina but Remove the Early hyperarmor. Remove Zone Track and Sidedash Attack track. Reduce Zone damage and make it punishable.
Highlander: Remove stupid Grab track reduce his dodge.
conq: If this hero is all about shield bash Gb with almost no oppenings, there is a sign of Inbalance int his game. He shouldnt be able to Parry. Why ? shield stance zone dash block is enough tool to counter.
PK: I think she is too exaggrated, she might need some buffs. Zone comes always from 1 side. if you turtle she is useless.

Valk: Needs buff no doubt.
Orochi: His guard is a joke. movement speed is a joke. very small kit.
Warden: Faster sight lightgs and reliable dodge and better chasing kit.
Centurion:this hero doesnt need a buff.
Aramusha: nope, perfectly fine.

[Sneakly20]

I’m only gonna throw my two cents in for ara and cent. Cent needs a rework. You can’t simply adjust numbers on him. He hits like a truck one moment and the next he a fish. He needs to be a brawler. More grabs and less damage. Ara.. well if you know how to block you can shut him down. He isn’t a reliable hero outside of ganks. His deadly feint is easily blocked or even parried depending on opponent. His blade blockade is not simply not powerful enough to warrant its use. His zone is generally is considered his opener but that even fails to open some people up.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

All I can say is that is my experience recently. It is highly annoying seeing most Conqs whip out fullblock when pressured and either get lucky by catching the opponent's 500ms lights or genuinley reacting to them. Maybe I'm getting lucky when I play Conq, maybe I'm too predictable when playing against him, all could be true. That being said, fullblock isn't actually what makes the reworked Conqueror a bit of a cancer. His zone and his ability to keep you in OOS indefinitely is.

I'm not someone to suggest in-depth nerfs and buffs because I don't live and breath this game but I can say that Conq has become one of the most annoying characters to fight because of the way he can pressure you when going on the offensive while also having the tools to be a defensive wall - he's pretty much got the best of worlds.

RE: Aramusha. Conq has a pretty decent feint game himself so it's not like he "doesn't have a feint game". The thing is, Conq has better offensive and defensive tools than Aramusha as well as one hell of an OOS pressure game. It's not really very balanced when you look at those two. "Faster attacks that do more damage", yeah if you can land them in a gank because no decent player will let Aramusha do that in a 1v1. I'd take Conq's objectively slower attacks but completely superior kit any day of the week.

So basically Conquerors are shutting down all these 500ms lights with their full block stance and its 300ms startup on reaction but their opponent can't back dodge a 500ms shield bash on reaction and are doomed to remain in OOS even though shield bash's stamina damage was actually halved by the rework. Okay.

Conqueror's feign game is not even close to decent. There's no viable options from a full block stance because everything after it is too delayed, it's entirely reliant on the enemy falling for the parry and not feigning the attempt. Try doing a charged heavy into full block stance or shield uppercut, they just back dodge and counter every option with no risk. Shield uppercut is so sad that assassins will just do their dodge attack and hit you before they get hit or at least trade a good percentage of the time. So no, there is no feign game and you're exhausting lots of stamina and opening yourself up to guard breaks.

[Vakris_One]

So basically Conquerors are shutting down all these 500ms lights with their full block stance and its 300ms startup on reaction but their opponent can't back dodge a 500ms shield bash on reaction and are doomed to remain in OOS even though shield bash's stamina damage was actually halved by the rework. Okay.

I can detect some main protectionism coming off of your tone which usually means a productive conversation is out of the window but lets hope I'm wrong.

You do know Conq can do a running shield bash with very little running distance right? Armed with that, his regular dodge bashes and soft feint cancels and a GB he can successfully play mind games with an OOS opponent better than most of the cast. Even a PK back dodge will eat a running shield bash/GB mind game if that's all she does. I mean the high level competitive crowd could be completely wrong about Conq's OOS pressure while you are right but I wouldn't bet money on those odds.

Conqueror's feign game is not even close to decent. There's no viable options from a full block stance because everything after it is too delayed, it's entirely reliant on the enemy falling for the parry and not feigning the attempt. Try doing a charged heavy into full block stance or shield uppercut, they just back dodge and counter every option with no risk. Shield uppercut is so sad that assassins will just do their dodge attack and hit you before they get hit or at least trade a good percentage of the time. So no, there is no feign game and you're exhausting lots of stamina and opening yourself up to guard breaks.

Fair enough.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

You do know Conq can do a running shield bash with very little running distance right? Armed with that, his regular dodge bashes and soft feint cancels and a GB he can successfully play mind games with an OOS opponent better than most of the cast. Even a PK back dodge will eat a running shield bash/GB mind game if that's all she does.

Charging shield crush has a massive stamina cost. It's about half of the Conqueror's stamina pool. Sure it's borderline unreactable between it and a gb after a sprint but you effectively end your own OOS pressure very short if you go through with one because you won't be able to afford to do much more after it without going into OOS yourself and all you'll get is a light and the stamina damage of an old shield bash.

I don't know what soft feint cancel you are talking about. Neither shield uppercut or full block stance is going to help you do OOS pressure. You're just wasting time and your own stamina.

Which leaves Conqueror with just shield bash / gb mixup which is indeed strong but definitely avoidable on reaction.

I mean the high level competitive crowd could be completely wrong about Conq's OOS pressure while you are right but I wouldn't bet money on those odds.

My point wasn't that Conqueror doesn't have adept OOS pressure because he certainly does. What I wanted to point out is that it's inconsistent to act like full block on reaction to a light is practical but consistently dodging shield bash isn't.