Simple Orochi changes/tweaks to fix him | Forums

[Draco067]

I main Orochi, I love his asthestic, and I find it fun to use his whole kit, but... He could use a tweak. I don't believe Orochi needs new attacks, but rather a better mix-up or more of a flow into other attacks.

Here's what I feel is wrong:

1) Back dodging into storm rush doesn't have the same effect as a normal back dodge. To give an example: I was dueling a conqueror bot and was able to back dodge out of the way of the Shield Bash, but the next time he did it I went into Storm Rush and got hit by the shield.

2) I find Riptide Strike fun to use but it is very risky.

3) Deflects need more versatility for all who have it.

4) Orochi kit is limited, and makes him predictable.

How would I change him:

1) (A) Give Storm Rush a farther dodge, add I-frames. One of the 2 at least, I'm tired of going to use Storm rush as a counter and getting hit or GB out of it.
(B) Allow any dodge attack and the ability to cancel out of it much later on, many times Orochi will get hit out of his SR by a light/heavy attack, this will give him another way to counter as well as keep people thinking. Lastly, give the GB soft feint more time to make up for the start up dodge.

2) The damage buff to riptide strike was great, but it needs a cancle. It also needs to be faster or delayable to better counter faster characters, such changes could warrant a damage nerf, but too much and it would be utterly useless again. This move needs I-frames, I should not be getting GB out of it, its a counter, let it counter someone who's trying to grab me rather than take a swing at me, seriously.

3) (A)Deflects should work against unblockables (UB). Deflecting a wild UB from a Raiders dane axe should work, from a realistic stand point, the attack has no control. Deflecting UBs would also give Assassins a better chance in 1vX situations for players skilled enough to use it.
(B) Should interrupt infinite chains and hyper armor. I don't know how many times I've gotten a deflect on a bereserker and they kill me because taking a sword to the gut for some reason doesn't stop his chain. If I'm skilled enough to get a deflect don't punish me for it. Same thing goes for hyper armor.

4) As I said above I don't think Orochi needs any new attacks, but such changes up above are intended to give him the edge he needs against newer/updated characters while still keeping his style of fighting. I'm not saying number values should not be adjusted.

There's been a LOT of discussion about Orochi for a very long time. I'm curious what people think about these adjustments?

Let me know?

[coldguy111]

Most of these are nice tweaks but they don't fix what was wrong with orochi in the first place. Against patient opponents there is no incentive against them to react. like the move sets of the new characters orochi needs some sort of generously feintable unblockable move to pressure turtles. All these tweaks do is make him safer but is still not enough.

[Draco067]

Most of these are nice tweaks but they don't fix what was wrong with orochi in the first place. Against patient opponents there is no incentive against them to react. like the move sets of the new characters orochi needs some sort of generously feintable unblockable move to pressure turtles. All these tweaks do is make him safer but is still not enough.

That's a fair assessment. I'm very hesitant to suggest hyper armor or multiple unblockables be cause it can turn characters like the Kensei (one that I play a lot) into a character that can spam uninterruptibles without too much regard for the damage being taken. For unblockables, the last thing I want to do is add more into 4v4, some need to be toned down if not removed, but I admit something to open up turtles is sorely needed. On that note...

I've seen many suggest a kick similar to Tozen's from TYM. I'm of the opinion that the Orochi get no more than 2 Ub if that, something that ends a chain (of which he could use a couple more) and that flow better, as well as something akin to Kensei's pommel strike that can be feinted into from a couple attacks to open turtles.

IDK, I dislike the idea of Ub from neutral, always have. Think this could work?

[coldguy111]

Yes even though I've always been more partial to using tozens unblockable blade attack as chain finisher.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think that the orochi should have the ability to get into his heavy deflect followup from neutral during chains (maybe without the armor property and lower damage). It would be similar to the skewer of the gladiator, and he should be able to soft feint it into a forward dodge light (the one that tracks dodges), and maybe to a riptide strike and storm rush too. It would make fights with orochis a bit more intense, but since he can be hit out from a move like this, it wouldn't be broken.

[coldguy111]

I think that the orochi should have the ability to get into his heavy deflect followup from neutral during chains (maybe without the armor property and lower damage). It would be similar to the skewer of the gladiator, and he should be able to soft feint it into a forward dodge light (the one that tracks dodges), and maybe to a riptide strike and storm rush too. It would make fights with orochis a bit more intense, but since he can be hit out from a move like this, it wouldn't be broken.

Mechanically that's fine but animation wise it would look bad with the orochi exposing his back to the enemy. Also if you can be hit out of it what would be the point. Unless give a hyper armor soft feint.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Maybe it can use the armor and a different animation, but the skewer is also fine without the armor. The orochi could just feint and parry if an attack is thrown at him, or the dodge out riptide strike would catch them, or they could even deflect out of it.

[Howard_T_J]

When did Orochi lose so much stamina to being hit? And what happened to me being able to deflect or at least block the musha's chains? Every time I get hit I stagger and can't event react. I don't think Orochi needs chains. His attacks are far too slow and predictable.

If anything make him more of a one hit win character. Glass Canon him. With slip through and fear itself. I've taken off 75% of people's health with one wind gust.

Orochi is probably going to be the hardest to balance. Without gear stats and feats he's a very different character.

[Draco067]

When did Orochi lose so much stamina to being hit? And what happened to me being able to deflect or at least block the musha's chains? Every time I get hit I stagger and can't event react. I don't think Orochi needs chains. His attacks are far too slow and predictable.

If anything make him more of a one hit win character. Glass Canon him. With slip through and fear itself. I've taken off 75% of people's health with one wind gust.

Orochi is probably going to be the hardest to balance. Without gear stats and feats he's a very different character.

I have difficulty blocking the Musha's chains sometimes too, as well as valks, she's actually starting to infuriate me on a certain level.

Orochi should not be a glass canon, his character description is "agile, counter attacker", not "hard hitter". Some of the suggestions I made above would make him both more agile and more of a counter attacker, but as coldguy111 said this would make him "safe", and looking more closely it might be too safe with all the adjustments. Not that I don't want any of them, but seeing as he's my main I want him to be good like anyone would want.

On the topic of feats, I made a comment in the 4v4 thread over in GD; to some it up I think feats like fear itself and any OHK should be removed for the new system I explain.

I agree that Orochi is going to be difficult to balance. With all the feedback they've received since the launch of DLC characters, they have more than enough ideas, it's just a matter of making him better while still keeping his style of play the same and without making him too good like they did the Kensei. They need to comit to a point of balance they want the characters to be within, so every DLC character doesn't release "broken" or "OP" every time. Hopefully the balance passes do this, but the Kensei rework has me worried a bit.

[Howard_T_J]

Valk I don't struggle with as much. But they are a pain. I've played Orochi day one with breaks in between. But every time I come back from a break. He seems a little less playable Everytime. I turned my hud back on and it's helping a little bit, but those damn feints get me all the time with it on lol

Or why not just make him an actual counter attacker. On block he gets a light stamina counter, on parry, he a medium stamina counter + a free light. I know it sounds over the top. But then people wouldn't constantly wail on him either because there are counters that come from him.