I can't be the only one thinking this.... | Forums

[Saint_YeetsXB]

I love For Honor, I love the concept, i love the classes, i love the game play, I just love this game. It kills me to see it how it is though. I know this game has huge potential with how it is, just something has to be done about the assassins.

I'm not saying nerf them or anything, i don't play the assassin classes very much so i cant say whats really wrong with them. I know turtle meta was awful and i didn't like it either. But the removal of the turtle meta is just killing the heavy classes. These are the guys that i love and want to keep playing, but nerf after nerf to the defensive style of game play just feel like blanket nerfs to all of these guys. They are bigger, they are slower, yet they don't feel like heavies with power or anything, just like big punching bags. I know that the skill of the player can in most cases override the "tier" of the character, but it feels like an uphill battle with every heavy character.

I think its good that characters in this game have hugely offensive play styles and i love that there are a select few with defensive styles. The problem i think stems from the fact that the assassins have just more options overall. They have the speedy attacks, great dodge movements, deflects, the same parrying abilities, stuns in a lot of cases, and hit almost as hard as the heavy classes too with their speed making up for the rest. They need the heavies to feel more powerful because in the case of shugoki and lawbringer, they tower over everyone else, they have more health but the difference just seems negligible most of the times.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because i know that Ubisoft is reworking the original characters but I don't want these defensive guys to die out. Its just frustrating to keep playing the game in the state its in. I love the game, I want it to be good, but there just isn't enough of that light at the end of the tunnel to keep me and apparently a lot of other people going much longer. Just please Ubisoft, don't mess up this season. Please don,t mess it up

[Charmzzz]

Look at the values here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Kgc/edit#gid=0

Assassins have less HP overall and no static guard. Most Heavy Attack timings are the same (800-900ms), and the damage is mostly very similar (30-35). There are exceptions, but not on Assassins.
They are not "faster" on everything. Most heroes (except 4) have a 500ms Attack. Dodge recoveries are overall a bit better on Assassins, but there are exceptions, too. Just have a look at the numbers.

[WastedPunk]

Assassins have less HP overall and no static guard. Most Heavy Attack timings are the same (800-900ms), and the damage is mostly very similar (30-35). There are exceptions, but not on Assassins.
They are not "faster" on everything. Most heroes (except 4) have a 500ms Attack. Dodge recoveries are overall a bit better on Assassins, but there are exceptions, too. Just have a look at the numbers.

Yes,there's no denying the fact that every light in the game is 500ms.Its about the animations that they have.
A Shugoki swinging his giant mace and a peackeeper stabbing with her tiny daggers may be the same ms,but they are most definitely not the same.
One is extremely telegraphed whereas the other isn't.Theres a reason why they are called Assassins.
When a Shugoki initiates a light attack,We see his arms moving,his body moving and above all,his giant mace.Whereas with the PK,all we get is the animation of her moving her arms and the daggers (I hope that made sense.)

[Charmzzz]

Yes,there's no denying the fact that every light in the game is 500ms.Its about the animations that they have.
A Shugoki swinging his giant mace and a peackeeper stabbing with her tiny daggers may be the same ms,but they are most definitely not the same.
One is extremely telegraphed whereas the other isn't.Theres a reason why they are called Assassins.
When a Shugoki initiates a light attack,We see his arms moving,his body moving and above all,his giant mace.Whereas with the PK,all we get is the animation of her moving her arms and the daggers (I hope that made sense.)

True. But Shugo is a bad example because he only has 600ms Light Attacks (together with Raider, Nobushi and Highlander Def-Stance). Sure, the animation is something to count in, but if you solely concentrate on the indicators, you will be fine.

Edit: I am wrong on Nobushi, first side light is 500ms, too.

[LightUpTheEyes]

True. But Shugo is a bad example because he only has 600ms Light Attacks (together with Raider, Nobushi and Highlander Def-Stance). Sure, the animation is something to count in, but if you solely concentrate on the indicators, you will be fine.

Edit: I am wrong on Nobushi, first side light is 500ms, too.

As far as heavies go, Conq is in a very good spot. Shugoki and Warlord need some help for sure. Although Warlord (at least for me) is pretty tough to beat when you get a player who parry punishes you oos and spams his 2step sprinting sheild push/gb thing. Which is one thing I'd like to see patched out.

[WastedPunk]

True. But Shugo is a bad example because he only has 600ms Light Attacks (together with Raider, Nobushi and Highlander Def-Stance). Sure, the animation is something to count in, but if you solely concentrate on the indicators, you will be fine.

Edit: I am wrong on Nobushi, first side light is 500ms, too.

Warden is probably the best example. His top light feels quicker than his side ones even though they are the same ms.Because one is more telegraphed than the other.

With that being said,the only real downside assassins have currently is less health so I agree with "mass confusions" post.
Heavy classes need to feel like heavies (More health,more damage but slower)

Whereas assassins need to feel like assassins (Less health,less damage,More mobility)
Obviously these cant be said about every hero of a particular class but the point still remains.

[Charmzzz]

Warden is probably the best example. His top light feels quicker than his side ones even though they are the same ms.Because one is more telegraphed than the other.

With that being said,the only real downside assassins have currently is less health so I agree with "mass confusions" post.
Heavy classes need to feel like heavies (More health,more damage but slower)

Whereas assassins need to feel like assassins (Less health,less damage,More mobility)
Obviously these cant be said about every hero of a particular class but the point still remains.

And welcome to the Assassin exclusive meta. As long as every hero can parry attacks, making heavy classes "slower" would end up being totally underpowered for them. I know what you want so see, it just does not fit in any fighting game. Maybe in a PVE fighting game where you can adjust the NPC's, but not in a PVP game. The faster classes will always win vs the slower classes, no matter the health.

[LightUpTheEyes]

And welcome to the Assassin exclusive meta. As long as every hero can parry attacks, making heavy classes "slower" would end up being totally underpowered for them. I know what you want so see, it just does not fit in any fighting game. Maybe in a PVE fighting game where you can adjust the NPC's, but not in a PVP game. The faster classes will always win vs the slower classes, no matter the health.

It would be neat if assassins couldn't parry, but have to use their deflect. I theory anyway, how that would translate to balance on the other hand...

[Vakris_One]

To be honest I think the Shugo is the closest thing we have to a firmly defined Heavy class in this game. The Warlord remains clunky and stilted but not particularly hard hitting. He's tanky-ish in terms of health but he feels more like a Vanguard than a heavy. The reworked Conq is more of a generalist now and has become a very aggressive character that just happens to have really good defensive options in the form of his 300ms full block into guarranteed heavy upon hit and his full block zone - he's become a jack of all trades basically.

In my opinion, Ubi should put work into defining the 4 classes until the respective heroes all feel like they firmly belong to that class. Right now the only well defined class is the assassin class. The answer is not to make the Shugo and Warlord a jack of all trades hybrid like they did with the Conq because then you might as well call them Hybrids.

Heavies need to still feel like Heavies whether that be via more hyper armour options, more health, a soft feint into a melee bash and/or big damage on their relatively slower unblockable strikes. They don't need to be made faster per say or given a ton of soft feints.

[Charmzzz]

It would be neat if assassins couldn't parry, but have to use their deflect. I theory anyway, how that would translate to balance on the other hand...

I am in for this with a big IF. IF they make unblockables deflectable AND buff certain deflects (PK especially is super lackluster compared to the others), plus give Assassins the "Raider trait" of CGB while dodging (which would even fit the Assassin theme), then remove parry from them. Yay, that would be awesome!