Lawbringer, Raider and Shugki Rework | Forums

[Illyrian_King]

This is really something creative!

I think it would be a good addtion.

Thanks.

I see this as a good solution.

[Illyrian_King]

Can we please get a reply from a dev?

I would really want, Ubi at least to give it a short thought, since Reworks are in process and I think this would be something creative, which would help these Heroes A LOT and also wouldn't make them similar to the rest of the roster.

[kanuzira]

Can we please get a reply from a dev?

I would really want, Ubi at least to give it a short thought, since Reworks are in process and I think this would be something creative, which would help these Heroes A LOT and also wouldn't make them similar to the rest of the roster.

Mine have been forwarded.

[Illyrian_King]

Mine have been forwarded.

You proposed the same thing?

[kanuzira]

you were in the comments

[SpaceJim12]

I see a way bigger problem in it, to watch 100kg of metall with a body builder wrapped in it, being parried by a PK with sowrd and dagger or a Shinobi with sickles. This is unrealstic to the utt-most.

Yeah, it's always make me smile, when fragile girl with thin daggers can stop and throw back someone like Shugoki, HL, LB...
But I don't think that parry punishment will solve problems. Just will create more of them. Why HL shouldn't have it? Conquer? Why just that three person? Nobushi and Glad as well have stick weapons, so why they can't use parry time to counter? To much holes in your thoughts.
While you do martial arts, I were trained in medival fencing and want to say, that only chance for you, if you are looking at huge claymore landing on your head is dodge. Far away as you can. Cause even if you have shield, there are no 100% sure that it will stand a hit.
But if we g to realism card, so there are a lot of **** that must be remove from game. First of all, button to cancel attack. Belive me, even if you got Hercules strength you can't stop a long sword in the middle of hit and attack from other side fast. Swordplay in real life is using of inertia at all. Try to stop Raider axe from 180 degree radius attack, while holding it to one end and trasfer it to top strike with another grip hold in 500-600 ms and you end up with this axe in your leg or head.
So plz stop compare For Honor and real life, for god's sake

[Illyrian_King]

Yeah, it's always make me smile, when fragile girl with thin daggers can stop and throw back someone like Shugoki, HL, LB...
But I don't think that parry punishment will solve problems. Just will create more of them. Why HL shouldn't have it? Conquer? Why just that three person? Nobushi and Glad as well have stick weapons, so why they can't use parry time to counter? To much holes in your thoughts.
While you do martial arts, I were trained in medival fencing and want to say, that only chance for you, if you are looking at huge claymore landing on your head is dodge. Far away as you can. Cause even if you have shield, there are no 100% sure that it will stand a hit.
But if we g to realism card, so there are a lot of **** that must be remove from game. First of all, button to cancel attack. Belive me, even if you got Hercules strength you can't stop a long sword in the middle of hit and attack from other side fast. Swordplay in real life is using of inertia at all. Try to stop Raider axe from 180 degree radius attack, while holding it to one end and trasfer it to top strike with another grip hold in 500-600 ms and you end up with this axe in your leg or head.
So plz stop compare For Honor and real life, for god's sake

This mechanic is meant only for the heaviest weapons, which otherwise don't dare to throw out lose heavies, eventhough it would be very realistic to go on pure force. These are definitely LB, Raider and Broki. Even regarding that LB's and Raider's weapons have a kindof "hook" with their weapons like halberds and axes do. Shuogki simply needs something more punshy ... HL could also have something like that, but just if compensated by a nerf in some areas. With this thing I want Heavies having exactly this possibility of being more "physically"

Imagine the following: You strike full force with your halberd and it gets parried, you just pull your weapon back and hook the enemies weapon towards you and give him like a headpunch with your steel gauntlet.

For Honor is far away from reality, but why should we "accept" that and stop thinking for cool ideas and let it end up as a weird rainbow heart unicorn simulator?

[SpaceJim12]

For Honor is far away from reality, but why should we "accept" that and stop thinking for cool ideas and let it end up as a weird rainbow heart unicorn simulator?

Read my post again, please. The problem is not in "stop thinking" but in HOW much unrealistic ******** in this game. And if you want to make it more close to sword fight, first you need to remove cancel move button, some insane soft feints that's impossible to do, than give every character counter attack like Warden's top and HL have, that remove parry from light class at all, let them dodge and counter, and remove dodge for LB, Shugo and others heavy, cause this impossible to move like PK in full plate armore, you barely can walk in it.
Than we see realistic For Honor. But idea to give some class chance to abuse more useful (after assassins dodge-light-feint spam) mechanic in the game are wrong.

[mrmistark]

....hmm.....erm.....yeah.....

This is one of those moments where I think: “WOW that would be an awesome and viable addition”.....

But then at the same time.... “but parry is a very basic core mechanic that I’m not sure should be excluded from some of the most damaging moves in the game”....

But then....”but these moves are SOOO hard to pull off otherwise and we can’t afford to destroy the characters identities with any faster speeds or over armoring ever character. And ugggg.....the amount of unneeded HA this game already has...we can’t be giving HA to every single character”


As you can see, I don’t really know how I feel. I agree that any other attempts to change the characters have a good chance of ruining them and their identity. These hard hitting attacks are very rare to hit, but an attack that damaging kind of should be..? But this also, especially in this rediculously aggressive meta, means a big portion of their kit has a much lower viability than everyone else, which, ALSO in a time of having multiple options with your kit for any given situation, is a serious handicap that can’t be forgiven through speed, UB or HA on almost all attacks, again like others.

Overall I agree with most of what you said, but don’t know if I think this solution is a good direction to go.

I’ve said it in other threads: after the parry changes, Raider went from good to bottom tier, because all he had to do was parry and carry, them UB zone mindgames. Now everyone just blocks everything but zone and to go into tap is so predictable. Shugoki is better off, I was part of the ideas shared previously,so that’s generally how I feel about him. Lawbringer is also not in a great spot either, but has a good property of block shove mixups.

Anyways, i DONT DISAGREE per se.....but I’d rather a non parryable attack more rather than doing an input after someone parried. Don’t let it work on UB, but all other heavies.
This would do multiple very important things: it would make a parry the punish it needs to be. By this I mean that if you parry, you PARRY. You don’t have to worry about performing a basic move in the game. If you parry there shouldn’t be a “HAH GOTCHA!” Counter. A parry is a counter in its own right. Instead I propose that we keep the track of your idea but give this different mechanic a new color, purple? Darker green maybe? Who cares. Anyways, this would give the indication that the move can’t be parried and will give enough preparation for your opponent to try to react. They can eat the chip damage or risk the dodge which they can fient for GB. This would make block damage super prevelant for these guys too.

Basically same concept but 1. It adds better mind games especially if we rank up the chip damage for heavier hitters cause they won’t want to take that damage but dodging is slightly riskier 2. Gives enough warning to be fair, and continuing into fairness 3. Won’t force the “so I’m getting punished for punishing you?!?” Salt that your version would propose if they had parried.

I’d also say that the only exceptions should be revenge activations or those moments when in a 1v2+ situation that you parry an attack and get the parry off a separate attack within the first parry animation. Basically when you get those double parries, if this attack would be one of those, it can be parried within the parry animation, if that makes sense, that way it doesn’t make getting ganked an even more problem than it already is. It’s also important to note I think the bigger boys all could use a little more health in general.

[Illyrian_King]

....hmm.....erm.....yeah.....

This is one of those moments where I think: “WOW that would be an awesome and viable addition”.....

But then at the same time.... “but parry is a very basic core mechanic that I’m not sure should be excluded from some of the most damaging moves in the game”....

But then....”but these moves are SOOO hard to pull off otherwise and we can’t afford to destroy the characters identities with any faster speeds or over armoring ever character. And ugggg.....the amount of unneeded HA this game already has...we can’t be giving HA to every single character”


As you can see, I don’t really know how I feel. I agree that any other attempts to change the characters have a good chance of ruining them and their identity. These hard hitting attacks are very rare to hit, but an attack that damaging kind of should be..? But this also, especially in this rediculously aggressive meta, means a big portion of their kit has a much lower viability than everyone else, which, ALSO in a time of having multiple options with your kit for any given situation, is a serious handicap that can’t be forgiven through speed, UB or HA on almost all attacks, again like others.

Overall I agree with most of what you said, but don’t know if I think this solution is a good direction to go.

I’ve said it in other threads: after the parry changes, Raider went from good to bottom tier, because all he had to do was parry and carry, them UB zone mindgames. Now everyone just blocks everything but zone and to go into tap is so predictable. Shugoki is better off, I was part of the ideas shared previously,so that’s generally how I feel about him. Lawbringer is also not in a great spot either, but has a good property of block shove mixups.

Anyways, i DONT DISAGREE per se.....but I’d rather a non parryable attack more rather than doing an input after someone parried. Don’t let it work on UB, but all other heavies.
This would do multiple very important things: it would make a parry the punish it needs to be. By this I mean that if you parry, you PARRY. You don’t have to worry about performing a basic move in the game. If you parry there shouldn’t be a “HAH GOTCHA!” Counter. A parry is a counter in its own right. Instead I propose that we keep the track of your idea but give this different mechanic a new color, purple? Darker green maybe? Who cares. Anyways, this would give the indication that the move can’t be parried and will give enough preparation for your opponent to try to react. They can eat the chip damage or risk the dodge which they can fient for GB. This would make block damage super prevelant for these guys too.

Basically same concept but 1. It adds better mind games especially if we rank up the chip damage for heavier hitters cause they won’t want to take that damage but dodging is slightly riskier 2. Gives enough warning to be fair, and continuing into fairness 3. Won’t force the “so I’m getting punished for punishing you?!?” Salt that your version would propose if they had parried.

I’d also say that the only exceptions should be revenge activations or those moments when in a 1v2+ situation that you parry an attack and get the parry off a separate attack within the first parry animation. Basically when you get those double parries, if this attack would be one of those, it can be parried within the parry animation, if that makes sense, that way it doesn’t make getting ganked an even more problem than it already is. It’s also important to note I think the bigger boys all could use a little more health in general.

Of course there are mixed opinions, but the very point behind this idea is, to let the most heavy wielding Heroes actually dare to go out of their turtle, which is only realistic.

Of course there could also be something like "unparryable" attacks, which would have this benefit and I would definitely prefere this before our current situation, where the heavier you are, the more you have to turtle.

In my eyes, the parry punish still has something more unique, because it adds more depth to the combat system and also to these 3 Heroes themselves. Like underlining their heavy character with such a kit-enhancement they seem to need. Their kit is alright, but needs this to allow them actually using it.

But repeatingly, if a simple unparryable system gets implemented, I would prefer it to the current system.

Btw. I also think, that having "mass" should mean more health.