Ideas for Shugoki. Feel free to contribute | Forums

[S.ArthurDayne]

Shugoki : remove that he takes double dmg when u break his armor , atleast in 4v4 modes cause he is suppose to be this massive fat tank that hits hard but is the easiest to kill if u gank him, whit the amount of unblockables and bashes u break his armor supper easy then he takes 110 dmg from a high gear stats highlander which is apsurd , and give him an opener ( belly slam would fit nice , nothing to fast but grants either good damage or average dmg + stamina drain) and a couple of more combos , finishers or new moves cant hurt , but stick to his character - fat slow but hits hard .

[bob333e]

- Tone down the pushback distance on his headbutt to allow for more combos or punishes
- His headbutt should not render him OOS if he initiates the headbutt while at very low stamina
- Remove the guaranteed GB when he whiffs his fully charged heavy
- Slightly increase sprinting speed
- Reduce stamina usage on his zone
- Second swing of his zone must be an unblockable
- His headbutt should also be a parry punish mechanic, i.e. able to headbutt after a parry
- Turn his golf swing on GB into a zone input rather than heavy attack input, and give him a normal heavy attack input on GB after which he can then headbutt as well
- Instead of having his static hyperarmor randomly popping up by itself, it should pop up only whenever he initiates an attack
- If he whiffs Demon Embrace at critical health it should kill him when the animation ends if he hasn't already been hit by an opponent (a.k.a. missing Demon Embrace at critical health is guaranteed death, because in trade this can one-shot, so it's a fair trade)
- Increase his HP to 180 and his stamina to 140

[UbiJurassic]

Thanks for sharing the feedback guys! I'd love to hear more players input on Shugoki.

Shugo is currently in line, along with the rest of the original hero roster, to receive either a rework or a major balance update to bring them up to speed with the rest of the hero roster. We don't have details on it or a date for when players can expect to see his changes, but we'll be sure to communicate that when those details become available.

[Sneakly20]

- Tone down the pushback distance on his headbutt to allow for more combos or punishes
- His headbutt should not render him OOS if he initiates the headbutt while at very low stamina
- Remove the guaranteed GB when he whiffs his fully charged heavy
- Slightly increase sprinting speed
- Reduce stamina usage on his zone
- Second swing of his zone must be an unblockable
- His headbutt should also be a parry punish mechanic, i.e. able to headbutt after a parry
- Turn his golf swing on GB into a zone input rather than heavy attack input, and give him a normal heavy attack input on GB after which he can then headbutt as well
- Instead of having his static hyperarmor randomly popping up by itself, it should pop up only whenever he initiates an attack
- If he whiffs Demon Embrace at critical health it should kill him when the animation ends if he hasn't already been hit by an opponent (a.k.a. missing Demon Embrace at critical health is guaranteed death, because in trade this can one-shot, so it's a fair trade)
- Increase his HP to 180 and his stamina to 140

Unfortunately I’m going to have to disagree with a few points here. First being the gb on charges heavy whiff. I think a good player will know when and when not to use the charged heavy. If he whiffs this move, which granted hurts a lot, I fully expect to punish him for it. The gb heavy is fine. The armor does not randomly pop up but if they take away the extra damage received once it’s down I can support that. But hyper armor on ever offensive move? We already have berserker. His second heavy on zone should not be unblockable. There is already so much of those going around. We don’t need more.

[bob333e]

Unfortunately I’m going to have to disagree with a few points here. First being the gb on charges heavy whiff. I think a good player will know when and when not to use the charged heavy. If he whiffs this move, which granted hurts a lot, I fully expect to punish him for it. The gb heavy is fine. The armor does not randomly pop up but if they take away the extra damage received once it’s down I can support that. But hyper armor on ever offensive move? We already have berserker. His second heavy on zone should not be unblockable. There is already so much of those going around. We don’t need more.

Thanks for your input, I'm going to address each individual point you've brought up and why I came up with them.

- Granted his fully charged heavy deals good damage when it lands, but it's also extremely easy to avoid, and he's also not very mobile. You can already punish him with a free heavy (or charged heavy) if he whiffs that move. The problem with guaranteed GB is that GB can lead to a lot of free damage simply for Shugoki whiffing one move and being locked in recovery. Of course it remains up to debate, I gave that suggestion without considering the unfavorable matchups against Shugoki (such as mirror match) so obviously further inputs can help pinpoint better whether this is optimal for him or not. I myself remains unsure about this particular point as well.

- Whenever I play Shugoki, the hyperarmor sometimes does not come up when I attack after it gets taken down, and I end up not being able to even land my lights, and any hit can stagger me. Provided Shugoki has very limited mobility, getting out of stagger is daunting. That's why I suggested to have his hyperarmor activate only on attacks. Though I agree, removing the extra damage received when he's out of HA is a much better deal. But comparing him to Zerk falls flat because he in no way can chain attacks like Zerk. The current HA on Zerk is extremely cheap, I agree.

- Having the second swing of his zone be an unblockable gives it a mind game use like Aramusha's zone, as well as gives Shugoki another feint game other than his charged heavy. The thing about his zone is that he can cover good ground with it, compared to his charged heavy, so by having the second swing unblockable he can apply better pressure, especially against retreating opponents (keeping in mind Shugoki has very bad mobility).

I only recall Aramusha's zone being an unblockable on the second swing; I don't recall any other. Remember we're talking zone attacks.

These are but mere thoughts for Shugoki. Nothing too refined and nothing finalized. At the end of the day he needs better flexibility, better mobility, and a little more tankiness. He doesn't need more damage or more moves or 400ms lights or bashes from neutral. I'd love to hear further inputs from others concerning him.

I understand your point about unblockables and the unblockable spam trend. It's because of how piss-poor the 4v4 modes are designed and they encourage ganking. Ganking in this game will forever be problematic because this combat system has been primarily designed for 1v1 encounters, 2v1 at most. Not 3v1s and 4v1s. And Revenge is half-useless when it's about survival, because the shield goes down rather quickly and it doesn't negate bashes from neutral, nor does it negate unblockable grabs/shoves while activating it.
Shugoki in 4v4s can just DE behind your back and allow his teammates to land free hits on you throughout the entire animation, then still heal off of you. Even if Shugo gets an unblockable second swing on his zone, why would they ever resort to the zone. Especially that the zone consumes more stamina and deals less damage than DE. And the zone is still parryable, whereas DE isn't.

It's more about making him a better fighter overall, than just giving him the "Shaman/Zerk treatment" which honestly became the super-cancerous trend in the reworks.

[Kryltic]

I've said this in another thread but here's my suggestions:

Remove the increased damage once his uninterruptable stance is consumed. Its not needed.

Give him a light-light chain and a heavy-light. All attack chains can be ended with a headbutt. Headbutts don't use up any stamina. Also they can knock people off ledges if close enough.

Demons Embrace also restores stamina, the amount changes in the same manner as the health. Also give it a slight delay before it can be used again to avoid any abuse.

A sprint speed increase. Perhaps the boost only lasts for a few seconds. Just to stop enemies from been able to easily flee when in danger (this is more a wishlist item). If not just a small boost in sprint speed.

I like the idea of the second hit on his zone to be unblockable. I'll second that as an idea that could work well.

Allow his charge of the oni to knock enemies down when they are OOS or if the Shugoki has revenge activated.

When he GBs an opponent, give him a light option where he hits his opponent with the hilt of his weapon in the stomach 'winding' them and doing light health and normal stamina damage plus it stuns. This allows him to have options other than smacking them away with a heavy for them to recover or just a light and headbutt.

[BTTrinity]

(This is coming from someone who doesnt play him, at all)

Definitely remove increased damage once his hyper-armor is gone, Shugoki can melt so easily

I like the idea for demons embrace restoring stamina as well.

Make oni charge knock down OOS opponents?

[Kryltic]

OOS = out of stamina, it gives him a way to punish people a little more if they try to flee or in group fights all clump together.

[bob333e]

OOS = out of stamina, it gives him a way to punish people a little more if they try to flee or in group fights all clump together.

Pretty sure he meant he wasn't sure what Oni Charge is :P

@BTTrinity Oni Charge is when you dash like supershrek for a short burst and you bump anything standing in your way. It pushes back and staggers opponents, can ledge if near one.

I'll agree Oni Charge needs to knock down OOS opponents if hit by it.

[BTTrinity]

Pretty sure he meant he wasn't sure what Oni Charge is :P

@BTTrinity Oni Charge is when you dash like supershrek for a short burst and you bump anything standing in your way. It pushes back and staggers opponents, can ledge if near one.

Lol I didnt mean to put the question mark, I meant to just list it as a suggestion.

For some reason I didnt see Kryltic say the same thing the first time I read his post, but yes I agree with the suggestion 100%