State of Balance Season 4 | Forums

[ViolentRebirth]

I don't get it. His shove although annoying leads to nothing as you can roll away from everything the shove can be followed up by. Light? Rolled away from. Guardbreak? Rolled away from. Heavy? Rolled away from. His shove in competitive is only good to drain stamina and try to read the opponent. Are they jumpy, do they wait to see what their opponent's next move is? Did I forget to mention that assassins can deflect into the light making it actually counterproductive to attack them in high levels of play as the damage they'd net in far exceeds the 15 damage you M I G H T get from landing a light? Even if they were to roll away and be out of stamina, it doesn't matter as Lawbringer's options of getting in damage is fundamentally flawed. What is he to do? Throw a 500ms light with its awkward animation, making it feel slower than it should be? It'd get blocked. Heavy? Same deal. Long arm? lol. Shove from neutral? Too slow to adequately catch someone and force a 50/50. Continued, you can't feint the shove so even if you got them to dodge preemptively, you can't capitalize on anything unlike with Warden's shoulderbash which is much faster and feintable. Impaling charge? Once you unlock from guard mode, everyone is going to block from the left so it's a useless move when they're out of stamina. Judge Jury Executioner? They can block each attack and patiently wait out to see if the unblockable is going to fly and even then, they can just dash backwards and evade it. His dodge recoveries are bad with the exception of dodging forward. There are numerous times where I'd go to side dash and shove as a counterattack and because of the dodge recovery delay, get guardbroken just as the orange indicator of the unblockable was showing.

How... How is he a top tier duelist? This makes zero sense. Continued, how is this accurate if we're using the top 2.5% of players? What? Am I seeing things? His parry punishes? The only thing he has is his parries but with the increasing number of soft feints in the game and Lawbringer's atrocious window to feint out of a heavy, you get interrupted most times that you try. Not only that, his damage is average at best compared to other heroes. 30 damage on heavies, 15 on lights and his biggest damage comes from parrying a light which only nets 45 damage. That's normal top raider heavy and its less than when he uses his zone attack in a chain as it does 50 damage. It's less than when shaman gets her bite, another 50 damage plus however many ticks of bleed damage was consumed before the bite. It's less than peacekeepers heavy into bleed. What the hell am I not seeing? How is he a top tier duelist character???? I play a lot of Lawbringer, he's been my main since launch, over a year ago and I've gotten him to rep 38(I play almost exclusively duels if I played more 4v4 matches, he'd be rep 50 over a week ago) but I don't play him because he's "good" because I fail to see how he could ever be thought of as "good". He's an amazing noobstomper but against competent players it's essentially a game of "parry or I lose". I play him because he has the best aesthetics out of anyone in the cast(in my opinion).

TL;DR How is Lawbringer a top 3 duelist? He's slow, has no openers worth mentioning, no hyper armor on chains, allowing him to get interrupted all the time, has poor dodge recoveries, lukewarm damage and is a gimmick character whose incredibly sink or swim. You are either a god or a grunt.

[Oupyz]

I don't get it. His shove although annoying leads to nothing as you can roll away from everything the shove can be followed up by. Light? Rolled away from. Guardbreak? Rolled away from. Heavy? Rolled away from. His shove in competitive is only good to drain stamina and try to read the opponent. Are they jumpy, do they wait to see what their opponent's next move is? Did I forget to mention that assassins can deflect into the light making it actually counterproductive to attack them in high levels of play as the damage they'd net in far exceeds the 15 damage you M I G H T get from landing a light? Even if they were to roll away and be out of stamina, it doesn't matter as Lawbringer's options of getting in damage is fundamentally flawed. What is he to do? Throw a 500ms light with its awkward animation, making it feel slower than it should be? It'd get blocked. Heavy? Same deal. Long arm? lol. Shove from neutral? Too slow to adequately catch someone and force a 50/50. Continued, you can't feint the shove so even if you got them to dodge preemptively, you can't capitalize on anything unlike with Warden's shoulderbash which is much faster and feintable. Impaling charge? Once you unlock from guard mode, everyone is going to block from the left so it's a useless move when they're out of stamina. Judge Jury Executioner? They can block each attack and patiently wait out to see if the unblockable is going to fly and even then, they can just dash backwards and evade it. His dodge recoveries are bad with the exception of dodging forward. There are numerous times where I'd go to side dash and shove as a counterattack and because of the dodge recovery delay, get guardbroken just as the orange indicator of the unblockable was showing.

How... How is he a top tier duelist? This makes zero sense. Continued, how is this accurate if we're using the top 2.5% of players? What? Am I seeing things? His parry punishes? The only thing he has is his parries but with the increasing number of soft feints in the game and Lawbringer's atrocious window to feint out of a heavy, you get interrupted most times that you try. Not only that, his damage is average at best compared to other heroes. 30 damage on heavies, 15 on lights and his biggest damage comes from parrying a light which only nets 45 damage. That's normal top raider heavy and its less than when he uses his zone attack in a chain as it does 50 damage. It's less than when shaman gets her bite, another 50 damage plus however many ticks of bleed damage was consumed before the bite. It's less than peacekeepers heavy into bleed. What the hell am I not seeing? How is he a top tier duelist character???? I play a lot of Lawbringer, he's been my main since launch, over a year ago and I've gotten him to rep 38(I play almost exclusively duels if I played more 4v4 matches, he'd be rep 50 over a week ago) but I don't play him because he's "good" because I fail to see how he could ever be thought of as "good". He's an amazing noobstomper but against competent players it's essentially a game of "parry or I lose". I play him because he has the best aesthetics out of anyone in the cast(in my opinion).

TL;DR How is Lawbringer a top 3 duelist? He's slow, has no openers worth mentioning, no hyper armor on chains, allowing him to get interrupted all the time, has poor dodge recoveries, lukewarm damage and is a gimmick character whose incredibly sink or swim. You are either a god or a grunt.

very easy u shove block everything , king of turtle he is

[ViolentRebirth]

You speak as though shove does damage. It doesn't matter if you shove them till the end of time if you nothing out of it against players who understand its fundamental flaws. It. Is. A. Useless. Ability.

[PanzerShrekonin]

Because pk has stronger punishes and an amazing option select. Shaman's mix ups are shut out easily.
pk doesn't have mix ups really but her 2 lights hit hard and are pretty much guaranteed against most people.
Her design just means she's got no bad matchups. Where as shaman has a few unfavorable ones.

I always knew PK and Shaman were top tier, I was just surprised at who was number 1 and 2. I thought it was flipped but it doesn't really matter. Both classes are just cancer.

[Oupyz]

shove block is anything but useless and it's been abused to death

and i always knew lawbringer is top tier but no one likes to believe , don't really attack shove block until he's dead not really that hard is it :/

[ViolentRebirth]

shove block is anything but useless and it's been abused to death

and i always knew lawbringer is top tier but no one likes to believe , don't really attack shove block until he's dead not really that hard is it :/

My dude... you didn't address a single issue I listed though. The only response your giving is "block shove" and I keep telling you that it's USELESS because they roll AWAY from ANYTHING you do after you shove them. I'm starting to feel like this conversation is going in circles with you.

[Oupyz]

well no need to read , law dudes were asking for a buff for a long time , that got me really boring reading complain about law , here are the stats he's top 3 in duel and top 1 in 4v4 , u could ask for shifting the power from block shove into something else .

but as you can see if shove block is that useless you wont be seeing him top 3 in 1v1 and top 1 in 4v4 would we my dude ?

[PanzerShrekonin]

I think its more of the parry punishes that law has.

The powerful heavy off a light and the impale/stun.

[Charmzzz]

Finally they present us THE DATA, then a LB main comes in (checked his FHTracker Profile, he is one) saying "this is false, LB is trash". Hahaha, made my day.

I think it is really interesting to see how the Characters perform in the highest level, I can only confirm this "tier list". Always said that LB and Raider are top tier in Dom, so many people told me I was wrong... PK being No 1 in Duel, I think her winrates on Console are higher than on PC and the matrix shows combined winrates. Still, too high as everybody can see.

I'm a PK Main and I agree to a Zone nerf. Reduce the speed of Zone to 500ms, don't alter the damage. But give PK the options in chains (back): every heavy in chains should be soft-feintable into GB or dagger cancel as it was before timesnap removal. Dagger cancel should be slowed down to 500ms but being an unblockable, dealing 15 bleed damage.

[Knight_Raime]

Finally they present us THE DATA, then a LB main comes in (checked his FHTracker Profile, he is one) saying "this is false, LB is trash". Hahaha, made my day.

I think it is really interesting to see how the Characters perform in the highest level, I can only confirm this "tier list". Always said that LB and Raider are top tier in Dom, so many people told me I was wrong... PK being No 1 in Duel, I think her winrates on Console are higher than on PC and the matrix shows combined winrates. Still, too high as everybody can see.

I'm a PK Main and I agree to a Zone nerf. Reduce the speed of Zone to 500ms, don't alter the damage. But give PK the options in chains (back): every heavy in chains should be soft-feintable into GB or dagger cancel as it was before timesnap removal. Dagger cancel should be slowed down to 500ms but being an unblockable, dealing 15 bleed damage.

You've got people telling you LB isn't top tier in 4v4? what....WHAT.
I agree on that zone nerf and the chain soft feints as well.
Not sure about that unblockable though.
I'd rather they just normalize all of her bleed so it all stacks with eachother. as it currently does.