You probably play Orochi wrong. | Forums

[UbiJurassic]

Excuse the rude-ish title but I wanted to use something that would grab peoples attention. Personally i've gotten fed up with how many posts or threads (not just here) claiming how trashy Orochi is. And coming up with insane buff ideas. Or just plain wrong ones -cough- tozens kick -cough- So I decided I would write up a thread on how to play Orochi "properly." In order to play him properly you must first understand what the Orochi is. A counter attacker. He's not an aggressor. He doesn't seek to open up a player. He has tools to properly chunk health in quick and decisive blows. He's very much a living version of Aramusha's blade blockade. Meaning his moves are meant for specific situations.
So instead of writing a guide i'm simply going to tell you what his tools are for:

Double top light:
Is your bread and butter move. It has decent range. decent speed. and alright damage. You use this to apply pressure. To bait feints.
To whiff punish. To beat raw bashes. the list goes on. If all else fails this is his most consistent way of punishing you and staying in your face.

Side lights/zone:
Both perform the same function. they exist as random throws on already conditioned enemies. Someone constantly blocking top but not falling for your feint baits?
Zone. someone wise to blocking the side hit after your double top light? zone. Someone eyeing for your zone but blocking your top lights? opposite side light (from your non zone side.)

Dash lights:
These are your defacto counters to other dodge attacks. See a pk begin to back dash? zeypher strike. See a kensei going for his new spoopy leg swift strike? dodge light.
They also work against raw bash unblockables like top light does.

Riptide strike:
Is your optimal punish tool on high recovery attacks. Things like another orochi's riptide, chain finishers like a warden letting his his top heavy finisher rip.
It's risky but it can be used against some mix ups. like if a bushi hidden stance feinted something and then let an attack rip from HS.

Storm rush:
Alternate tool to punishing whiffs AND high recovery attacks. You can even zone after it if the opponents guard was up top when you hit them with SR as the stun puts heros in a high recovery state.
It guarantees double top light in most instances. and can be soft feinted into a GB if you were cheeky enough to use it after a non high recovery move.

Heavies:
Are your primary method of punishes after a parry or baiting someone with top feint. top heavy on light parry. and side heavies are used in some max OOS punishes.

Deflects:
Are your secondary method of punishing with the potential of eeking out more damage.
See due to orochi's swiftness he can GB or double light after most things he does which keeps enemies on their toes and potentially get more damage.
Just wind gust a light? quickly follow with double top light. If that lands next time you wind gust go for a GB.
Hurricane blast is orochi's ultimate risky tool and his best mind game mix up. It has armor. does I believe 40 damage. If the person attempts to dodge you can soft cancel it into a GB for a top heavy. or if they're going to attack you anyway but you won't survive the hit soft cancel into wind gust. Maybe they got really lucky on a read and attempt to roll away. dash out of it and storm rush that sucker.

The important thing to understand is that some of Orochi's tools over lap on what they can potentially do. Meaning a sign of a good Orochi is not only someone who understands the role of his moves in his kit. But can comfortably use different tools to accomplish the same task so the opponent has a much harder time answering the Orochi. Now. Even after all of this i'm not saying he's perfect as is. He can and should see some changes. just like every other hero. But he's not in a dire state. The devs are already on a good track with the top light damage nerf and buffing riptides damage. Honestly I just feel like people don't get what Orochi really is. And claim he's bad because he's predictable. When really Orochi is only predictable because the person playing as him is playing that way.

Excellent guide, Knight_Raime! I've been picking up Orochi more recently and it's nice to see some of the things I might be doing right and a lot of the things I'm doing wrong.

[Knight_Raime]

Im sad to say you, orochi is the easyest class i ever play. I read this thread and i tryed orochi. I just spam top and i kill all my enemies with 2 hit. I just feint top into double top or feint top to top, or again feint top to zone. Some time i used dodge attack and gb with again top.. yes orochi need rework but because is easy to use. He are the most fast hero of the game and do a tons of damage just with top. And this is why 40% of the players use it, is the most used hero of the game and not because is hard to play but completly the opposit.

His top lights were nerfed. they're 22 damage. it's not tons of damage.
And if your opponents were dying to just that they're not good opponents.

[Knight_Raime]

Where did I say a absolute statement that we can’t discuss? I did say that I do agree with his points 100% (not the attitude)but that’s my opinion. I say this with respect but I find it interesting that all the guys who are saying that Orochi is not far off compared to other characters are new to him. Is it possible that at rep 2-3 you may not have played enough time or good players to really see his short comings? Beta orochi is not the orochi we have now. I know I am rep 3 on Shinobi and although I have a basic understanding of his kit I would by no means say I know the ins and outs of the character.

Other charecters can attack at all angles we can’t against good players. Side lights are as slow as some heavies. Our reflex guard will show us move guard to the right spot but the delay causes us to be hit by the attack. We are a counter attacker that good players simply won’t attack because they know we have no way to attack them if they hold top guard. I can bait someone into a attack, back step and Storm rush right as soon as the the swing miss’s and they can still react in time to block it.

You say we are 4-5 moves away from being on par with other characters. I agree with that but those 4-5 moves are huge and hopefully will be the big difference from the “trash tier” we are now to viable against any class.

Again all respect buddy just giving my two cents.

Since beta to now orochi hasn't received many changes.
I'm hardly new. No time spent in customs is recorded. Further more i've been dueling pretty much exclusively since launch on more than just one hero.
So the rep for any hero I have isn't going to be insanely high. But if you want to attempt to write off my points over something as irrelevant as rep then by all means go ahead and leave the thread.

I react and block just fine with reflex guard. Even if I would buy your point about it i'd rather say it's more harmful on glad because it's only up for 500ms. Orochi's is up for much longer.
Saying good players won't attack is a strawman. Because that forces me to contest that claim rather than discussing the original topic. If you are getting your storm rush blocked you're attempting to use it on attacks that have little to no recovery. Which is still possible to hit them anyway. But you'd have to SR on prediction and not reaction. If SR was any faster than is it would be able to be used on lights on reaction. Which was a problem.

Didn't mention moves. I said 4-5 tweaks. and I didn't say on par either.

[Knight_Raime]

Knight has brought us valuable points, the screaming for the buff is out of focus. But im afraid I disagree with some conclusions

It is important to point out that there are good orochi, and Yes, they can be effective, but for this you a year worth of training is required, perfecting and knowing every aspect of the other characters to countteract, and do absolutely zero mistakes. ( one light parry and his is done against some heros)

Many are asking openers, but he should not have any of that, saying that I think the tools he current has are still insufficient (in number and quality) to be an effective counter attacker.

Deflect is still too risky to be worth committing to Riptide cant be feinted, and still be gb or whiif punished.

As I said before I would like to see him with a bigger options to play for bait / faint / punish.

What pains me is exactly that to be a competitive orochi, you need tons of experience, to be unforeseeable, do not make any mistakes. It's a quite stressful. kkk

As I said before I would like to see him with a bigger options to play for bait / feint / punish.

Exaggerating a little , you have to be god to win with Orochi, or just choose Shaman (insert others)...

A good orochi just like a good warden is someone whos basically mastered the base game mechanics.
I don't think he needs any new tools. The current tools just need a little buff.

[Knight_Raime]

Ive got to admit I didn't see some of the "buffs" people suggested like a safe opener I really don't agree with them that would kinda ruin orochi for me tbh but my bad candel and knight I thought you 2 where trying to say he's didn't need any tweeks or buffs I can't wait for his rebalance/rework I stopped using him back in s2 give me a reason to pick him up again

No He absolutely needs tweaks. All heros can use some.
I just see a lot of plastering of hyper armor/unblockables/ and even more outlandish ideas to make orochi a proper aggressor that opens people rather than being a counter attacker.

[Devils-_-legacy]

Yh I got to admit I wrote that before i seen some of the request some people have asked for after candle brang it up I had to have a look at what people have said recently and tbh the majority of what I'm seeing is based on him being the agreseror and not foucused on shutting down the enemy's attacks which is what made me play him originally

[guor6800]

Excuse the rude-ish title but I wanted to use something that would grab peoples attention. Personally i've gotten fed up with how many posts or threads (not just here) claiming how trashy Orochi is. And coming up with insane buff ideas. Or just plain wrong ones -cough- tozens kick -cough- So I decided I would write up a thread on how to play Orochi "properly." In order to play him properly you must first understand what the Orochi is. A counter attacker. He's not an aggressor. He doesn't seek to open up a player. He has tools to properly chunk health in quick and decisive blows. He's very much a living version of Aramusha's blade blockade. Meaning his moves are meant for specific situations.
So instead of writing a guide i'm simply going to tell you what his tools are for:

Double top light:
Is your bread and butter move. It has decent range. decent speed. and alright damage. You use this to apply pressure. To bait feints.
To whiff punish. To beat raw bashes. the list goes on. If all else fails this is his most consistent way of punishing you and staying in your face.

Side lights/zone:
Both perform the same function. they exist as random throws on already conditioned enemies. Someone constantly blocking top but not falling for your feint baits?
Zone. someone wise to blocking the side hit after your double top light? zone. Someone eyeing for your zone but blocking your top lights? opposite side light (from your non zone side.)

Dash lights:
These are your defacto counters to other dodge attacks. See a pk begin to back dash? zeypher strike. See a kensei going for his new spoopy leg swift strike? dodge light.
They also work against raw bash unblockables like top light does.

Riptide strike:
Is your optimal punish tool on high recovery attacks. Things like another orochi's riptide, chain finishers like a warden letting his his top heavy finisher rip.
It's risky but it can be used against some mix ups. like if a bushi hidden stance feinted something and then let an attack rip from HS.

Storm rush:
Alternate tool to punishing whiffs AND high recovery attacks. You can even zone after it if the opponents guard was up top when you hit them with SR as the stun puts heros in a high recovery state.
It guarantees double top light in most instances. and can be soft feinted into a GB if you were cheeky enough to use it after a non high recovery move.

Heavies:
Are your primary method of punishes after a parry or baiting someone with top feint. top heavy on light parry. and side heavies are used in some max OOS punishes.

Deflects:
Are your secondary method of punishing with the potential of eeking out more damage.
See due to orochi's swiftness he can GB or double light after most things he does which keeps enemies on their toes and potentially get more damage.
Just wind gust a light? quickly follow with double top light. If that lands next time you wind gust go for a GB.
Hurricane blast is orochi's ultimate risky tool and his best mind game mix up. It has armor. does I believe 40 damage. If the person attempts to dodge you can soft cancel it into a GB for a top heavy. or if they're going to attack you anyway but you won't survive the hit soft cancel into wind gust. Maybe they got really lucky on a read and attempt to roll away. dash out of it and storm rush that sucker.

The important thing to understand is that some of Orochi's tools over lap on what they can potentially do. Meaning a sign of a good Orochi is not only someone who understands the role of his moves in his kit. But can comfortably use different tools to accomplish the same task so the opponent has a much harder time answering the Orochi. Now. Even after all of this i'm not saying he's perfect as is. He can and should see some changes. just like every other hero. But he's not in a dire state. The devs are already on a good track with the top light damage nerf and buffing riptides damage. Honestly I just feel like people don't get what Orochi really is. And claim he's bad because he's predictable. When really Orochi is only predictable because the person playing as him is playing that way.

So a guide about how to turtle properly with orochi

Just kidding very well written Raime. But you make it sound too easy. You know that in "high" level play an orochi is probably doomed from the lack of option. I mean throwing a light from the different side of the zone just want to get parried hard.

If we put two players with same amount of skills and experience,one on orochi and one on the rest of the assasins who really has the tools to be more creative and play better mindgames through the fight? That's where my problem with orochi stands.

If he can outplay the other heroes? Definitively every single one of them. But comparing his double top and zone with shamans full kit on jumps,bleeds,soft feints and unblockables for example it feels like i use a stick to fight a full plate armored knight. He has like 3-4 more tools to be innovative with his gameplay.

[wolfman25br]

So a guide about how to turtle properly with orochi

Just kidding very well written Raime. But you make it sound too easy. You know that in "high" level play an orochi is probably doomed from the lack of option. I mean throwing a light from the different side of the zone just want to get parried hard.

If we put two players with same amount on skills and experience,one on orochi and one on the rest of the assasins who really has the tools to be more creative and play better mindgames through the fight? That's where my problem with orochi stands.

If he can outplay the other heroes? Definitively every single one of them. But comparing his double top and zone with shamans full kit on jumps,bleeds,soft feints and unblockables for example it feels like i use a stick to fight a full plate armored knight. He has like 3-4 more tools to be innovative with his gameplay.

WoW!

I could not explain it any better.

This is exact my point of view, that's why I mentioned that it could have an increase of moves (not just buffs) is his toolkit (not as openers).

In addition to balance, new moves can give an air of novelty in the gameplay.

But PlsStop with the Tozen Kicks nonsense. Its op, and or dont fit the role.

[guor6800]

WoW!

I could not explain it any better.

This is exact my point of view, that's why I mentioned that it could have an increase of moves (not just buffs) is his toolkit (not as openers).

In addition to balance, new moves can give an air of novelty in the gameplay.

But PlsStop with the Tozen Kicks nonsense. Its op, and or dont fit the role.

The "openers" trend started with freaking centurion on season 2. After this many people feel that their class should have an unblockable "opener" and i don't really blame them. Personally im not a really big fun of neutral unblockable opener moves but im not the one that calls the shots for sure.

As for orochi. He needs tweeks at the very least..Something that could make his side lights actually useful must be done. Assasin with 600 ms side lights feels like a joke honestly.Some new chains would be welcomed also not that neccesary though. And make Riptide cancelable at least. I won't say unblockable because it loses its purpose of "countering".Just let us be able to feint it.

[Yoshimitsu_440]

So becsuse I am not a master at deflecting I am a trash orochi? Hmm. I played exclusively orochi since closed beta until glad release and I disagree with op. As someone who does kendo it blows my mind how slow orochis attacks are and how predictable he is comparing to other characters especially comparing to kensei