You probably play Orochi wrong. | Forums

[CandleInTheDark]

I agree a good player using orochi can be a challenging opponent but that doesn't mean his kit is on a good place

The thing is people are asking for the wrong things, they are telling the devs they want safe openers, so let's assume they get an opener that 90% of the time lets them access their burst damage, which again is what the character is all about, they would be able to melt away half to three quarters of an enemy's health pretty much at will and that is not a healthy state for the game.

Yes some moves could be more viable, but they should not be made safe openers, being able to get into that burst damage without first having to read the opponent and take advantage of that changes the whole concept of the character. Counter attackers should not get 100% safe openers and if a character's mains try to use his counter attacking moves as openers then of course they are going to be punished for that.

[Knight_Raime]

The issues with riptide are well known. It's not cancelable, it doesn't retreat far enough to not get hit, when you get hit starting it it's cancelled, the timing of the retreat and then the attack is wonky. Storm rush is decent and I use it a lot but it can only be cancelled in the first 1 or 2 steps, very predictable as you retreat and set it up, again doesn't retreat far enough to not get hit during start up. When it does land it does good damage but you need someone to commit to an attack. The top light after can be stopped if their guard was on top as you hit the storm rush. Deflects have been plagued by the connection issue of p2p since the start but now that servers are in and when lag comp comes to play things could be different. Deflects stopping chains need to be remedied in his rework. Orochi really needs people to attack and commit to attacks to really shine. Right not everyone is heavy feinting and throwing a lot of UB's. It's as if people at my level just started learning this all of a sudden because it wasn't a thing that long ago, only ran into few people that played like this. His dash attack has good tracking but is very telegraphed as well.

Right as I said i'm not saying he's perfect. he can be buffed. but basically every move sans his side light is pretty usable.

[Knight_Raime]

Yeah, nice post, needed to be said. Orochi is a bit lacking when you compare him to some of the newer classes, but in season 1 Orochi and Nobushi were all I ever saw. He was one of the best classes back then in the right hands, and is still pretty well equipped character imo.

I think the problem is that Orochi seems to attract a lot of "Uber 1337 gamerz" who are about 12, and think they're a pro ninja. I imagine a lot of them switched to Shinobi in season two, but it's the same people that only camp and snipe in FPS games. The same people that rolled a Night Elf Rogue on WoW. The same people that go on Minecraft after they rage quit when they lose because they aren't playing their class properly on For Honor. And hence the same people that come and cry on the forums.

Can you sticky this Ubi in the hope that people stop making buff Orochi threads every single day?

mm. I wouldn't say it's sticky worthy. And I don't want people to be discouraged from making threads. Just wish people would put a bit more effort into their suggestions.

[Knight_Raime]

I really wanna punch this guy in the face right now
Orochi is fine the way he is ?
yeah maybe when he had a Vanguard Assasinguard at the sametime ... Because the only way to win duels with Orochi is Hard Turtle and Parry or Deflect.
in a duel, you should be able to mix your Options. If you just keep focusing on Parry an Opponent, you are a Food.
aswell as Deflect . or Riptide.

Every Experienced Opponent i've Faced with my Orochi. Turtle alot more , i mean why now ? their Tool is safe for that and they know you are limited. so why should a Lion chase after a Cat ?
The Options Orochi has are very limited, I always force my Opponent to Attack so i can Predict deflect or Parry. But its ******* Risky. and Stamina consuming.
Orochi is Easy to Play but very Hard to Master Hero.



whats your rep on Orochi ? you seem to be a another butthurt Orochi hater. which caused his Nerfs during All the Seasons.
You make a Huge Thread for the Easiest Punisable hero after Valk in The game lol.

Accept it or Not.

The WAY OROCHI IS RIGHT NOW, IS T R A S H he has more disadvantages compared to Others.

You can hard Turtle with Assassin Guard ( ) , and call it i am a "Master" Orochi But the fact that Orochi is Trash Doesnt change.

Any Experienced player knows that.

Never said he was fine as is. Pretty sure I mentioned he can and should receive buffs.
I only contested that he wasn't garbage like common belief.

My rep with him is 2. Almost 3. But I played Orochi exclusively in both beta's. and a ton in custom games with friends. Not like my rep matters anyway.
I don't see how anything i've said indicates i'm butthurt. Considering the attitude from this post that can be inffered from you.

The rest of your response is empirical statements over facts and strawmanning. This will be my first and only reply to you considering i've seen how you behave in other threads. good day.

[Knight_Raime]

Odd thread. Yeh orochi can be good but about 80% of what you said is good about orochi requires you to turtle. That I believe is what most have a problem with. His offensive ability is really lacking. It's the same it's always been, top light/zone. Only difference top light is weaker now. I like orochi. I think he is the most "pure" character on the roster. If someone wins with orochi he was better than you. Can't blame any of what he did on cheese/cheap tactics because he doesn't have any. Compared to most other characters he is extremely weak, an orochi is required to have a much higher skill ability than most others so a Battle between two equally skilled players and one is playing orochi, orochi loses.

Yes Orochi demands more out of a player than some heros. I don't think that in itself is a problem.
and yeah he kind of does turtle. because he's a counter attacker.
People want him to be something he's not.

As I mentioned i'm not opposed to him being buffed.

[Knight_Raime]

I am not saying you are wrong, because you are not, but i got to point out aganist this specifically. Bear in mind that this is my personal experience, anecdotal evidence and your mileage may vary.
But when i see orochi throw random side light as a surprise tool, doesnt matter the situation, it gets parried about 80% of a time. It just got weird combination of being relatively slow, and clear readable animation that says "this is 100% comitted attack and you are free to parry it". IMO, because of the animation itself, even if you sped up all his lights up to 500ms it will still be easy to parry and will not help him much, if at all,

With riptide and storm rush, you are indeed correct, catch is, you need to perfectly know your matchup and exactly know which attack is punishable and which isnt etc. Not that requiering precise matchup knowledge is a bad thing, it just makes him harder to use compared to some others.

Imo, as some already pointed out, its that just whole concept of Orochi.that is at fault. He is an assassin... that lacks offensive options and needs to be played very reactively. Why would you play assassin if you wanted to turtle? Instead of playing any of the dedicated turtle heroes. It just feels wrong.Its counter-intuitive.
And to top that out, there are some questionable decisions in his numbers. Compare top and side heavy. Side heavy is 100ms slower AND deals 5 less damage then corresponding top heavy. Just, why? Why would you ever use it, except from attempts at being "unpredictable"?

I dont think he is WEAK weak, but he is definitely pulled down by conflicting design choices behind him.

Assassins don't inherently mean aggressive.
I agree his side light is probably the weakest thing in his kit. But I don't think speeding it up and/or buffing it's damage would be the right solution either.
I'm still working on my rep grind. maybe i'll come up with a solution to it.

[Knight_Raime]

This guy is 100% right. Good players just turtle with top guard. Side lights are parry bait. If you are a good player riptide is a joke. If you have any kind of fake out game the orochi would be crazy to pop it. Can’t deflect more and more charecters because they will just spam threw with hyper armor. No OOS punish at all against a player that can cgb and block.

Don’t get me wrong as a 45 rep Orochi I can win against a lot of players but when I play people that are skilled I do feel that I am at a disadvantage.

P.s. reflex guard is annoying.

If you're going to make absolute statements like him i've no reason to actually entertain a discussion with you.

[Knight_Raime]

I agree a good player using orochi can be a challenging opponent but that doesn't mean his kit is on a good place

Never agreed that his kit was in a good spot. Just contesting that he's garbage. because he's only like 4-5 tweaks away from being fine.

[SuguruMisato]

Ok, I'm gonna be serious for a moment... As everytime I was talking about Orochi in different places, I was just told to git gud, so I'm just flat bored and exhausted on talking and falling on deaf ears...

Instead of thinkin in 1 dimension, like "I PLAY Orochi that way, so it means YOU must be bad or not use proper technics" - compare Orochi to Berserker or Shaman... They are both assassins and they can easily defend themselves when ganked... But once Orochi gets a second assailant on him, he's just dead.

Shaman and berserker both have moves that can easily get them out of clashes or fend offenders off a bit - like the spin-to-win bersekrer move or shaman's INSANE dodge capabilities (dunno if it's ms based, but she can parry or dodge moves with such ease, that it feels almost impossible)...

And now Orochi - if there are more than 2 enemies on Orochi - good luck. He isn't as quick as shaman nor does he have any move that can fend off attackers. Orochi's zone attack is somewhat usable, but it takes little to no damage and it leaves him vulnerable after the end animation... Berserker can continuously go with his axes after the spin, shaman can just fly around the enemies with ease and Orochi can just simply die or run like hell...

Orochi has too many vulnerabilities compared to other assassins and his sword feels ultra sluggish compared to what was previously... The most irritating thing is when you see other characters heavy attacks landing before your light attacks... I don't know what to say anymore about Orochi, because I feel like I've said everything eveyrwhere and nobody's listening, just telling me to git gud...

Played Orochi since Closed Alpha and he was much better compared to his current state...

[CandleInTheDark]

Ok, I'm gonna be serious for a moment... As everytime I was talking about Orochi in different places, I was just told to git gud, so I'm just flat bored and exhausted on talking and falling on deaf ears...

Instead of thinkin in 1 dimension, like "I PLAY Orochi that way, so it means YOU must be bad or not use proper technics" - compare Orochi to Berserker or Shaman... They are both assassins and they can easily defend themselves when ganked... But once Orochi gets a second assailant on him, he's just dead.

Shaman and berserker both have moves that can easily get them out of clashes or fend offenders off a bit - like the spin-to-win bersekrer move or shaman's INSANE dodge capabilities (dunno if it's ms based, but she can parry or dodge moves with such ease, that it feels almost impossible)...

And now Orochi - if there are more than 2 enemies on Orochi - good luck. He isn't as quick as shaman nor does he have any move that can fend off attackers. Orochi's zone attack is somewhat usable, but it takes little to no damage and it leaves him vulnerable after the end animation... Berserker can continuously go with his axes after the spin, shaman can just fly around the enemies with ease and Orochi can just simply die or run like hell...

Orochi has too many vulnerabilities compared to other assassins and his sword feels ultra sluggish compared to what was previously... The most irritating thing is when you see other characters heavy attacks landing before your light attacks... I don't know what to say anymore about Orochi, because I feel like I've said everything eveyrwhere and nobody's listening, just telling me to git gud...

Played Orochi since Closed Alpha and he was much better compared to his current state...

No one is saying he doesn't need changes of some sort, it is just most people wanting a buff are also people who feel that they should have a means of bypassing that he is a burst character in nature. Essentially they want another peacekeeper who speaking as someone who had her as his first main (I play way too many to call any a main now) they got wrong because she could ignore her kit all together in favour of lights, or those safe openers people are demanding to have on a counter attacker.