Mouse and keyboard is cheating on console | Forums

[ViudaFabricante]

Even if it was as simple as buying a usb KB n mouse to play on PS4/XB you would still need some sort of table/desk to set it up on. Not everybody has that luxury. And besides if you need to use it on gimped players just to win a game you should probably just go back to PC. I never did see the appeal to using exploits like this or doing other things like cheating/hacking for easy wins. The point of a competitive game is to surpass your peers on an even playing field. That's what makes it fun, or so I thought.



Play literally any competitive FPS on PC with a gamepad and you'll learn the obvious advantages of playing with a Keyboard n mouse. Not saying that it's impossible to win with a gamepad but you will be at a severe disadvantage.

Your table/desk argument is stupid. If you can afford luxuries such as a TV an xbox; you likely already have a table or desk. All you really need is a hardback book to put a mouse on; keyboard can go in lap. Problem solved.

I'm aware of the obvious advantages of playing with the keyboard and mouse. This is why I advocate giving everybody the ability to use one if they would like to. I would like an even playing field; and banning mouse and keyboard tips that playing field in favor of people willing to exploit/bypass the rules.

It's kind of like alcohol prohibition. You ban alcohol; the result? People determined to have alcohol still have alcohol and you've enabled a shady underground.

Ban a keyboard and mouse; the result? People determined to play with a keyboard and mouse still play with a keyboard and mouse and you've enabled a shady industry of workaround peripherals and you put honest players at a serious disadvantage in that they have no way to compete without themselves enabling a shady industry of workaround peripherals and putting other honest players at a disadvantage.


So again; what is so wrong with giving EVERYBODY the OPTION of using a keyboard and mouse by default?

[ViudaFabricante]

"That is not how it works" was in reference to your "
Or you can take $20 to Walmart and buy a mouse and keyboard for your console. " I was hoping i don't have to explain this, but i seem to have to. I am aware of the cost of a setup, i am fully aware of the prices for a good pc (as i have sege on pc) and console (as i have it on 2 ps4's so i can play with my significant other). It is not only 20$ for console kb and mouse, only the xim is approx 130. Plus the time you need it to set up and you might need to know a thing or 2 about parameters that you set up.

You stated that the controller is not the appeal for console, what is your explanation there? You want the benefits of a PC for 25% of the price? And have you noticed the difference of a driving game, on keyboard or controller? Or you play COD and stuff like that?

And, in the end, here is your explanation for the down side... it is harder to do quick turns or aim from a controller and in a shooter against controllers a mouse wins, so probably you weren't simply destroyed by mouse players on console too many times to actually be angry about it.

The Xbox has native support for mouse and keyboard; allowing that native support would kill the xim. Driving games are better with a controller. But we aren't talking about driving games.

And here is my counter for your down side. Play with a mouse and keyboard. The problem with banning the mouse and keyboard, is that again, the people who are willing to use a xim will still be using a mouse and keyboard while you don't even have the option of using a mouse and keyboard because the native support was removed for no good reason.

And yes; a 75% reduction in cost is going to be the appeal of the console, not the input method.

[T-_King_-67]

Your table/desk argument is stupid. If you can afford luxuries such as a TV an xbox; you likely already have a table or desk. All you really need is a hardback book to put a mouse on; keyboard can go in lap. Problem solved.

I'm aware of the obvious advantages of playing with the keyboard and mouse. This is why I advocate giving everybody the ability to use one if they would like to. I would like an even playing field; and banning mouse and keyboard tips that playing field in favor of people willing to exploit/bypass the rules.

It's kind of like alcohol prohibition. You ban alcohol; the result? People determined to have alcohol still have alcohol and you've enabled a shady underground.

Ban a keyboard and mouse; the result? People determined to play with a keyboard and mouse still play with a keyboard and mouse and you've enabled a shady industry of workaround peripherals and you put honest players at a serious disadvantage in that they have no way to compete without themselves enabling a shady industry of workaround peripherals and putting other honest players at a disadvantage.


So again; what is so wrong with giving EVERYBODY the OPTION of using a keyboard and mouse by default?

My argument about the table isn't one of affordability. Not everybody has the space in their bedroom or wherever they have their gaming gear to setup a designated area for their keyboard n mouse. A few years back when I lived with my parents and played more on PC I had no choice but to use a gamepad because there simply wasn't enough space in my room to set up a table and chair in the middle of the floor for the keyboard and mouse. But I mainly got into PC because of a friend of mine and I just wanted to be able to hang out with him on it more often so I was fine with the disadvantages of game padding on it.


But the moment you allow KB+M support for FPS's on console is when people are gonna start complaining. For console FPS's at the point where the KB+M becomes an option it's no longer an option it's mandatory if you want a sweet Jesus chance in snowball hell to ever ever win a match. And when that happens where players are pretty much forced to abandon the controller and get a KB+M just to be competent a lot of players will just abandon the game outright instead.

[DKDridin]

Mouse and keyboard doesnt give better call ous or give better game sense.

But it sure helps with snapshots, accuracy, and overall ease-of-use. If you are a keyboard and mouse user look at yourself in the mirror. You’ll see a scumbag looking back at you.

[Aenigmatista]

PS4 does not work with kb and mouse directly. Also Xim tricks console to read mouse and kb as controller, so it makes it analogue. Now if you try to make it automatic, it might ban someone that just has high sensitivity on the controller. I am against it also, putting a mouse and kb on console, that's why when i get bored of ps, i play it on my computer.



That's not how this works...

Anyway it's unfair to have mouse and kb on console. If you wanted that, buy it on PC also, see if you are good there.

You're about the 100th guy that says that. It's not true it's impossible to detect Xim4 users, what I said still holds.

[Behroon]

Or you can take $20 to Walmart and buy a mouse and keyboard for your console. If you acknowledge that a mouse and keyboard is superior, why not use one? Limiting the input devices we can use because you don't like it is ridiculous.

People don't play games on consoles just so they can use the controller. People play games on consoles because it's considerably cheaper and easier to have games run well and stable. If a beast gaming rig only cost me between $300-$500 like an Xbox does, you best bet I would be on the PC.

I think you're just upset because you get rolled in ranked. Get good. Keep practicing. Build a team and some team strategies.

My dude, the game doesn't natively support k+m. If it doesn't support k+m natively and the person is using k+m then it is considered cheating. Also with the 3rd party system, it tricks the console to think it is a controller which gives the m+k aim assist.

[Behroon]

PS4 does not work with kb and mouse directly. Also Xim tricks console to read mouse and kb as controller, so it makes it analogue. Now if you try to make it automatic, it might ban someone that just has high sensitivity on the controller. I am against it also, putting a mouse and kb on console, that's why when i get bored of ps, i play it on my computer.



That's not how this works...

Anyway it's unfair to have mouse and kb on console. If you wanted that, buy it on PC also, see if you are good there.

Well PS4 actually does support k+m, it's up to the game developer to add native support to their game. Fortnite supports k+m natively.

[SpecterPhoenix]

This 100%.

If Ubisoft can't fix it, which is a lie since you can recognise the inputs of a Xim4 (eg they don't have analogue sticks which means they always move with optimal speed or not + aiming with the right stick is always instant as well).

At least publicly (ingame) announce it's banable.

As stated Xim4 makes the keyboard and mouse emulate a PS4 and XB1 controller so the system would view it as if it was a third party controller (think the old Mad Catz controllers).

You're about the 100th guy that says that. It's not true it's impossible to detect Xim4 users, what I said still holds.

Yes, it still holds up. The devs are passing the buck though. Blizzard's Overwatch director, Jeff Kaplan, wants MS and Sony block Xim4. This was Mike Ybarra's, Corporate VP of Gmaing at Microsoft, statement via Twitter:

Developers should decide if they want people to use these or not. Personally, I don’t like them being used.

According to SDL's library creator told me via Twitter:

At the app level, you might be able to sniff out specific hardware, but it would be an arms race, and they can wait out the clock until you stop updating the game, since update certification is time consuming and expensive.

Game journalist, Brenna Hillier of VG24/7, pointed out this reasoning for why Sony and MS won't ban the device:

PS4 supports keyboard and mouse control natively for many system functions like the Internet browser, and developers can opt to extend full keyboard and mouse control for games which benefit from it. There’s even an officially licensed mouse and mini-keyboard controller, the TAC Pro.

Basically, saying Sony won't block it because it might help sell more TAC Pros.

Meanwhile, Microsoft is currently pushing cross-buy, cross-save and cross-play between Xbox One and Windows 10 via its Play Anywhere scheme, so it’s pretty unlikely to ban mouse and keyboard input.

So as you can see, every one is just passing the buck around instead of taking action against Xim4 and other such devices.

[Aenigmatista]

As stated Xim4 makes the keyboard and mouse emulate a PS4 and XB1 controller so the system would view it as if it was a third party controller (think the old Mad Catz controllers).



Yes, it still holds up. The devs are passing the buck though. Blizzard's Overwatch director, Jeff Kaplan, wants MS and Sony block Xim4. This was Mike Ybarra's, Corporate VP of Gmaing at Microsoft, statement via Twitter:



According to SDL's library creator told me via Twitter:


Game journalist, Brenna Hillier of VG24/7, pointed out this reasoning for why Sony and MS won't ban the device:

Basically, saying Sony won't block it because it might help sell more TAC Pros.



So as you can see, every one is just passing the buck around instead of taking action against Xim4 and other such devices.

Indeed and it's quite pitiful.

The only true solution is Ubisoft creating an algorithm to detect inhuman inputs. It's an indirect approach unlike Sony disabling the hardware in the first place. I'm certain there are possible algorithms to be made with an acceptable error. The indirect approach could result in an arms race, that's a good argument. However, I think an initial ban wave would scare many people of.

The truth is that Ubisoft doesn't want to make any efforts. Using a Xim4 is banable according to the EULA everyone agreed to, no warnings are needed. What strikes me is that a consumer has to do its utmost best to find any statements of a Ubisoft representative whether circumventing hardware is allowed or not. Take my advice, make it public it's banable regardless whether you'll enforce it or not.

[Insevin]

Use of KB&M on consoles where controller is standard is another aspect of taking advantage to the point where it is cheating. Enhancing your aim with disallowed input devices is unfair and unsporting conduct. Ubisoft has come out against it in the original ToS.

People that use M&KB *know* they prefer it over controller aka they are more accurate and deadly with it in-game. It simply is NOT FAIR in console gameplay. The only way that would work is Ubisoft DID allow a preference to matchmake per input device on consoles. Otherwise, M&KB players are essentially cheating. Being able to do something does not make it right.