Kensei - just learned he's even worse than Ara | Forums

[Charmzzz]

Despite that argument....

Can I ask for some advice? Especially with the top unblockable. If I don't try and parry it I'll eat the unblockable, and if I do then he can feint it to the sidr and I an glued into a different reaction.

This feels wholly unfair. No character should have anything like this, and I know that Kensei is not alone.

1. look at the icon - if it flashes he let it go and you can parry / dodge
2. if he feints it - no problem

Most problems come from overreacting. I know this behavior from myself, I struggled hard on Warden SB and every unblockable mixup (Raider, Shaman, etc). Being patient and knowing what the other guy can do fixed it for me.

[Knight_Raime]

Despite that argument....

Can I ask for some advice? Especially with the top unblockable. If I don't try and parry it I'll eat the unblockable, and if I do then he can feint it to the sidr and I an glued into a different reaction.

This feels wholly unfair. No character should have anything like this, and I know that Kensei is not alone.

Well idk how knowledgable you are. So i'll just tell you everything.
Far as I know the feints from neutral heavy are all at the same time. 600ms into the attack. So this basically looks like when kensei has reach the peak of his swing. when it's basically directly above him. he can input a cancel at anytime before that but it will always come out at that point.

I don't currently know the ms on his unblockable. But I know that they also normalized it. So that you can't delay it coming out anymore.
I sort of use the same logic with his top unblockable that I do from his heavy feinting from neutral. once it's reached the top and starts coming down it's usually safe to assume that he's going to let it rip. and anything he can soft feint it into will be blockable. So you can just stonewall and wait to parry or just be ready to block.

Though alternatively if you can't seem to get the parry timing down on it i'd suggest changing up how you choose to counter it. Which would depend on your hero. But the 100% absolute best way to beat his unblockable top heavy mixup is to keep him from getting to it. He gets to it at the end of a chain. So from neutral it would be 3 top heavies. If he dodges forward for helm splitter and that lands he can do a top unblockable. A GB if he throws makes it unblockable as well. and finally wether his dodge attack is blocked or it lands he can go into top unblockable heavy.

Figuring out your opponents pattern and then mixing up how you deal with their pattern is how you'll win. For instance I play a dodge heavy kensei to go into my top unblockable. Only really using my neutral heavy feint into pommel if the person plays turtly (as all other soft feints from neutral will just be blocked.) So feint baiting me into a dodge where you parry me or GB me would be a good way to deter that style of play.

[HazelrahFirefly]

Last night I tried with my Valk for 15 rounds, all that had time for. Valk is my second main but I think she's out of commission until a rework.

Tonight I will try for more rounds with my main, the PK, and see if I can figure anything out.

Thanks for the tips. I don't feel like I actually get it yet, but maybe the sentences will spring to mind as I'm fighting?....

[Charmzzz]

Last night I tried with my Valk for 15 rounds, all that had time for. Valk is my second main but I think she's out of commission until a rework.

Tonight I will try for more rounds with my main, the PK, and see if I can figure anything out.

Thanks for the tips. I don't feel like I actually get it yet, but maybe the sentences will spring to mind as I'm fighting?....

I know that feeling. Retraining muscle memory is pretty hard. I had that same problem with Warden SB. I knew that, in most cases, a light attack will counter his SB attempt from neutral. Still I tried to dodge or anticipate the GB. But over time and failing again and again, I retrained my behavior and now Warden's are "meh". Same thing for LB shove on block into light / gb. After I learned that I should only dodge if I instantly see an icon after shove - otherwise he will gb - it was easy to anticipate what the LB will do and react correctly.

[Vakris_One]

Despite that argument....

Can I ask for some advice? Especially with the top unblockable. If I don't try and parry it I'll eat the unblockable, and if I do then he can feint it to the sidr and I an glued into a different reaction.

This feels wholly unfair. No character should have anything like this, and I know that Kensei is not alone.

Kensei had this before his rework. They only added the ability to cancel into his side lights for some added threat. They normalised his feint timings so it is now actually much easier to get used to his soft cancel timings as apposed to before when he could slightly delay them or use them at the very start of his top unblockable.

You'll need to learn the timing of when he can no longer soft cancel the top unblockable as it's not always possible to stop him from getting to it. When his sword reaches the peak of his swing, i.e. when it has moved a little past his head and is now coming down towards you then it means he has committed to the unblockable and can no longer soft cancel it. Wait until that moment before you decide how to react. If he's committed to it you can choose to parry it or dodge it and get a free GB on him.

If he soft cancels into his side heavies you can block them or parry them as they are quite slow. If he soft cancels into his side lights you can block them and train your reflexes to be able to also parry them - high tier players have parried mine frequently much to my dismay. If he soft cancels into GB, you can counter GB.

If you can train yourself to not react too early this move will no longer present such a big threat to you.

[HazelrahFirefly]

I think that might definitely be the problem, reacting too early. I see the top unblockable coming and want to parry it at all costs.

[HazelrahFirefly]

Oh, and btw, I know my initial post was rather whiny. Its just so disheartening to feel like I should just quit the game. In 4v4s I have been running or letting Aramusha and Kensei kill me. I am hopeful that with servers I can combat Ara, because sometimes I crush them now.

[mrmistark]

Honestly man, as a Kensei main almost the whole game, the rework almost feels like a nerf to me now.

I know this sounds crazy, but what they did was make his movements so clunky except for the soft fients by normalizing them. His smoothness is just not anything like it used to be.

In addition, the only thing he actually got was the options of UB finisher for all top heavies, but without the pressure of UB to really make it matter as much because there’s no need to parry it or anything following it up. Just look for the pommel strike, the rest is just blocking and each attack is pretty animated coming in. The only thing that they added honestly was being able to have soft fients for light armored attacks which I don’t feel was necessary anyways as the light attack option has mainly a fient option for when they were going to parry and have been reading fient into Gb, and pommel strike which is good but ironically can’t be used for the UB finisher. This move is pretty good for people who just sit there and wait, but easily dodgeable or counter Cc.

I mean, he DID get options, but the way they made him less smooth honestly makes every animation so easy to read. They basically kept skill ceiling the same level but dropped the skill floor significantly so any fool can play him but players who have been playing him understand that they didn’t get as much as they thought at face value. It slightly makes the fient game easier. Slightly..... but again, his new clunkiness really negates this small buff by the clunkiness. I suspect once people get used to him and fully understand all of his options he’ll be put into b/b+ tier. Just like aramusha.

I know this sounds crazy and is probably an unpopular idea, but that’s my honest opinion. I see him like aramusha: stupidly hard to stop once he came out, but now you hardly see aramusha doing half as well as he used to. Even on console he’s like b tier now and has been shut down easily by the collective player base over and over again.

[Vakris_One]

Oh, and btw, I know my initial post was rather whiny. Its just so disheartening to feel like I should just quit the game. In 4v4s I have been running or letting Aramusha and Kensei kill me. I am hopeful that with servers I can combat Ara, because sometimes I crush them now.

Understandable. We've all been there at some point versus a particular character or tactic that feels really frustrating to overcome. The important part is you want to learn how to counter it and that kind of fortitude is genuinley something rare in this community and something to be respected.

Keep at it man and I wish you the best.

Honestly man, as a Kensei main almost the whole game, the rework almost feels like a nerf to me now.

I know this sounds crazy, but what they did was make his movements so clunky except for the soft fients by normalizing them. His smoothness is just not anything like it used to be.

In addition, the only thing he actually got was the options of UB finisher for all top heavies, but without the pressure of UB to really make it matter as much because there’s no need to parry it or anything following it up. Just look for the pommel strike, the rest is just blocking and each attack is pretty animated coming in. The only thing that they added honestly was being able to have soft fients for light armored attacks which I don’t feel was necessary anyways as the light attack option has mainly a fient option for when they were going to parry and have been reading fient into Gb, and pommel strike which is good but ironically can’t be used for the UB finisher. This move is pretty good for people who just sit there and wait, but easily dodgeable or counter Cc.

I mean, he DID get options, but the way they made him less smooth honestly makes every animation so easy to read. They basically kept skill ceiling the same level but dropped the skill floor significantly so any fool can play him but players who have been playing him understand that they didn’t get as much as they thought at face value. It slightly makes the fient game easier. Slightly..... but again, his new clunkiness really negates this small buff by the clunkiness. I suspect once people get used to him and fully understand all of his options he’ll be put into b/b+ tier. Just like aramusha.

I know this sounds crazy and is probably an unpopular idea, but that’s my honest opinion. I see him like aramusha: stupidly hard to stop once he came out, but now you hardly see aramusha doing half as well as he used to. Even on console he’s like b tier now and has been shut down easily by the collective player base over and over again.

I've been with Kensei since the beginning as well and I agree that he feels a lot clunkier than the old Kensei who for all his shortcomings felt much more fluid. It doesn't feel like a downgrade to me though but only because they gave him more options with which to be creative with, which is what he badly needed.

I have the sneaking suspicion Kensei might drop to high B tier once people get used to countering everything he can do simply because he doesn't have the potential to flow as well as before but only time will tell. He for sure has more staying power than the old Kensei and is not at risk to becoming obsolete anymore.

[AkenoKobayashi]

People just aren't used to Kensei's new kit. Just like Aramusha. But once they have played as and against Kensei, they will learn how to counter him. It's not hard if you understand he basics of the core game mechanics. The top heavy combo is extremely slow, so if you aren't dodging it or parrying it, that is on you.