"Just dodge" | Forums

[WastedPunk]

"Lose stamina means nothing.Warden has little OOS game"
Seriously? Because either being able to SB that depletes the stamina or being able to Soft feint the SB into GB that can catch even the most mobile heroes mid dodge isn't good "oos game"?
You can't even roll away in oos which negates your argument about dodging away when you clearly can't.

Please tell me,how can anyone humanely be able to react to SB MIXUPS? But ofcourse,you can lol

[Knight_Raime]

"Lose stamina means nothing.Warden has little OOS game"
Seriously? Because either being able to SB that depletes the stamina or being able to Soft feint the SB into GB that can catch even the most mobile heroes mid dodge isn't good "oos game"?
You can't even roll away in oos which negates your argument about dodging away when you clearly can't.

Please tell me,how can anyone humanely be able to react to SB MIXUPS? But ofcourse,you can lol

Because if i'm OOS and i'm not directly in front of you I can just continue to back dash to avoid any SB you drop from neutral.
If you try to run all the way to GB me I can just tech it while moving back. Or if i'm basically almost out of OOS I can throw a slow light at you to deter you.
and if you get semi close and go for a full charge SB I can just back away more and then GB you.

[Charmzzz]

"Lose stamina means nothing.Warden has little OOS game"
Seriously? Because either being able to SB that depletes the stamina or being able to Soft feint the SB into GB that can catch even the most mobile heroes mid dodge isn't good "oos game"?
You can't even roll away in oos which negates your argument about dodging away when you clearly can't.

Please tell me,how can anyone humanely be able to react to SB MIXUPS? But ofcourse,you can lol

SB into Bash - 700ms - 400ms on startup to cancel into GB or feint - this makes it completely reactable. If Warden does not feint or cancel into GB right after startup - he can just let it fly.

Now to PK Zone - it always comes from your right - keep your guard there and you completely negate it. And even if you dont want to do that, it is still a 400ms move like Shaman predator pounces. If you get hit by PK using only Zone, why dont you just put your guard there and react to every other attack as it is a "normal" 500ms one? And not to forget, PK can use Zone twice before being in critical range of being OOS. That would be 40 damage. If I do this in my MMR I will eat a parry on the next one for sure...

[WastedPunk]

SB into Bash - 700ms - 400ms on startup to cancel into GB or feint - this makes it completely reactable. If Warden does not feint or cancel into GB right after startup - he can just let it fly.

So 300ms is good enough time to make an attack reactable?

Now to PK Zone - it always comes from your right - keep your guard there and you completely negate it. And even if you dont want to do that, it is still a 400ms move like Shaman predator pounces. If you get hit by PK using only Zone, why dont you just put your guard there and react to every other attack as it is a "normal" 500ms one? And not to forget, PK can use Zone twice before being in critical range of being OOS. That would be 40 damage. If I do this in my MMR I will eat a parry on the next one for sure...

Much like rolling away,"keeping your guard to the right" only lets you block it while being open to attacks from the other 2 sides.
Just like the guy above said,Risk:Reward ratio needs to be equal.
But yes ignore PK's zone since it can be blocked one way or another.

What about CCs(the whole point of this thread) that are 500ms and are UN-PUNISHABLE even if you react correctly because of the dodge recovery.

[Charmzzz]

Much like rolling away,"keeping your guard to the right" only lets you block it while being open to attacks from the other 2 sides.
Just like the guy above said,Risk:Reward ratio needs to be equal.
But yes ignore PK's zone since it can be blocked one way or another.

What about CCs(the whole point of this thread) that are 500ms and are UN-PUNISHABLE even if you react correctly because of the dodge recovery.

Your rewards for placing your guard right are:
1. negating a fast attack
2. enabling you to parry it if the PK still tries to use it
3. if you only block the Zone it will cost the PK half her stamina

Isn't that enough for just placing your guard to a specific direction? And further, why is it harder to block a 500ms move vs a PK than vs any other Hero (cause almost every one has access to a 500ms move)?

Which CC are you referring to? And why every Hero has to be able to punish e.g. Conq SB or WL Headbutt on dodge? That is an Asssassin playstyle and should be true for Assassins, not everyone. HL has other things going for him, like crushing counter in every direction, Hyperarmor moves, offensive stance for UB and his CC mixup. If the HL let's the Conq getting close enough for his SB mindgame, well, he failed to use his range...

[WastedPunk]

Which CC are you referring to? And why every Hero has to be able to punish e.g. Conq SB or WL Headbutt on dodge? That is an Asssassin playstyle and should be true for Assassins, not everyone. HL has other things going for him, like crushing counter in every direction, Hyperarmor moves, offensive stance for UB and his CC mixup. If the HL let's the Conq getting close enough for his SB mindgame, well, he failed to use his range...

Because if it's un-punishable,then it encourages spam.Why should I NOT spam a cc if it's un punishable?

[Charmzzz]

Because if you have an attack which can only reward you while risking nothing, it is fundamentally wrong.

Uhm, Conq has to dodge before he can initiate his SB, same goes for WL on headbutt. Sooo you could GB him in that duration. Risk is there, even if you are not an Assassin.

[Charmzzz]

Because if it's un-punishable,then it encourages spam.Why should I NOT spam a cc if it's un punishable?

Well, for HL it is an unfavourable matchup. But that does not make the move itself "OP".

[WastedPunk]

Well, for HL it is an unfavourable matchup. But that does not make the move itself "OP".

Where did HL even come from?
How is it not op if it's un-punishable? That's whole reason anything is even considered "OP". If it rewards you with no risk taken.
So to you, absolutely nothing is OP right? Whether if it's un-reactable or un-punishable.

[Charmzzz]

You would need to be withing gb distance to do that, and if I remember right both those moves start 100ms into the dodge which is impossible time to react for vast majority if not all.

If you are not in GB range - Conq is not in range to put pressure on you with his SB because you have enough time to throw out a light to counter it.

Where did HL even come from?
How is it not op if it's un-punishable? That's whole reason anything is even considered "OP". If it rewards you with no risk taken.
So to you, absolutely nothing is OP right? Whether if it's un-reactable or un-punishable.

Wait, your video "evidence" showed a Conq - HL matchup. And now you ask where the HL came from? Seriously?

It is not unpunishable, I punish it regularly. If some Character cannot punish it then it is a problem with the Character, not the move itself. The rest of your post is just insulting and aggressive behavior, won't comment on that.