"Just dodge" | Forums

[Hormly]

Shield bash is cheap and needs to be made punishable end of story.

And it will

[Charmzzz]

Shield bash is cheap and needs to be made punishable end of story.

And it will

It already is. Through out a 400 / 500ms attack on reaction - done.

[CandleInTheDark]

Would work with some other characters, but HL does not have them, so he is pretty helpless in that situation.

Well, yes and no. He has one at 400ms but he has to already be in offensive stance to do it, if he is he is fine, if not, then yeah it is a problem.

[CandleInTheDark]

Yeah the transition to OF takes so long it is unusable. If he on the other hand manages to enter it, the conq would just gb him because he can't cgb or even block while on offensive.

Ah yeah so against a good conq you are screwed. I haven't used him (on the list but there are a lot on the list, hopefully dedicated servers speed up progress), got that raw from the values spreadsheet.

[Charmzzz]

Hilarious how people get a video yet they deny what they see

I still deny that Conq SB or Raider UB mixup are 50/50's or OP in all cases. Yes, Conq SB mixup is maybe too strong against HL, but that is a HL and not a general problem.

[Knight_Raime]

Would work with some other characters, but HL does not have them, so he is pretty helpless in that situation.

Highlander has a 600ms recovery in defensive form and a 300 or 400ms recovery in offensive form.
conq's forward recovery is 600ms but 800ms in all other areas.

Highlander can dodge the forward bash on reaction but it's tight in defensive form. if highlander goes into offensive form out of range he can easily dodge any of conq's varied up times with forward bash and punish with anything he wants.

The match is still not in favor of highlander because of how easy ish it is to keep highlander out of offensive form. But highlander has options. it's no where near as bad as you make it to be.

Kensei and LB have a far worse time dealing with conq than highlander does.

[Knight_Raime]

Yeah the transition to OF takes so long it is unusable. If he on the other hand manages to enter it, the conq would just gb him because he can't cgb or even block while on offensive.

if you raw into it yes. if you fast flow into it (which there are various ways to do so) no.
and if conq tried to answer the fast flow with a gb he'll just eat a 40 damage unblockable.

Conq would have a better chance getting HL out of offensive form with his top light or zone cancel.

[Knight_Raime]

You can't fast flow from neutral, you have to attack or parry, and you cannot parry the shieldbash and your attacks are too slow. If you activate it from distance, well then yes you can get into it, but when you get close enough for the OF light to hit you are close enough the get guardbroken or eating attacks. This will of course work if the conqueror doesn't know that the HL is defenseless while in OF, I've even seen it few times when people don't know all they had to do was attack or gb and they could kill the HL trying to use offensive form.

Standard play for HL is to walk backwords while lighting to fast flow into OF.
If the conq tries to answer this with a GB he'll eat balors might.
If the conq tries to answer this with a bash he might knock HL out of OF. but will still eat balors might.
And if there is enough spacing in between conq and HL during this HL could easily dodge the bash and hit with balors might.

Anyway you look at it the bash is nearly useless against HL if he's in OF. and trying to go for a raw GB will just be met with an attack.
I was literally doing this all day.

[Knight_Raime]

He will eat the OF heavy only if he tries to gb when the heavy is already flying. Don't know who would do that though. The heavies dont have hyper armor so the bash or more likely a simple light will interrupt the attack and push him out of the stance.

If someone is fighting a highlander and lets him be in offensive form even when he is most vulnerable there (literally cannot block or cgb), he deserves to have hard time.

No. If he goes to GB and the HL knows this letting the heavy fly will make it bounce off. it's fast enough that you can do that on reaction. it's literally the same thin if you know someone is going for a GB and you let a normal light or a heavy fly when they attempt. You can make it sound like only bad people would do that but that's a strawman. If it's normal for people to attempt to GB a highlander in OF then it stands to reason people who play HL consistently will be aware of this and be able to let one rip when a GB is attempted.

As I said I spent a lot of today letting my balors might go when I noticed the conq attempting to bash me. There were times when I beat it out right and was still in OF and there were times where the bash hit me but he was still hit by balors might. The only way a bash is going to be able to correctly answer an OF heavy being let go is if he's close enough that we're practically hugging. If you properly space conq out wether he attempts to bash or just dodge forward in attempts to bait me I can let the heavy rip and it will beat both things.

Last sentence is a strawman. Fact is conq v HL is not a bad matchup for HL. merely an unfavorable one. This is entierly because HL now has acceptable dash recovery in defensive form and god tier recovery in OF. A conq that primarily relies on forward bash mix up will not topple a HL who's decent.

[Charmzzz]

Just stop it Knight_Raime. He won't accept you being right and him being just too slow or failing to understand some mechanics in the game. Just have a look at his FHTracker Profile. Mediocre Players will always say that something is a true 50/50 or OP or unbeatable or unreactable or impossible instead of trying to find out what could be an answer.

No offense BarbeQMichael. It's just sad that you won't accept a pretty good guide of "how to play HL against conq"...