Revenge and Unblockable rework | Forums

[pure_energist]

Honestly do we even need revenge? The problem I have always had with this is the assumption that it is ok to get into bad situation because revenge will help to even the score. The problem I have with this is that the 4v4 modes are all team games, whether that is elimination in which the teams go until all are dead, skirmish which is a rolling 4v4 fight, dominion or tribute in which objectives are more important than kills or brawl which whether it is played as a fight or series of 1v1's is, like elimination, a go until everyone is dead kind of thing.

So the thing here is that 1vx will come for a very few reasons. In elimination, they come either because a team is short handed or someone is looking for a boost or revive when teams are otherwise evenly matched in terms of numbers. In either occasion if you are in 1vx it is because the other team is playing better than you, either in terms of they have taken your allies out or are working better as a team. Same with brawl on a smaller scale with no boosts.

In skirmish, again, the teams start with equal resources, if there is a mismatch, it is because a few people are dead and waiting the next revive spawn or someone has left the fight to look for a boost, if the former, the other team have earned that advantage, if the latter the risk is taken by that player and it is up to his team to cover for them.

In dominion and tribute, the teams are supposed to work together in order to achieve shared goals, if someone is getting into a 1vx, then that is generally through their own choosing, whether defending an objective in which case what is the rest of the team doing? If dead, again the other team are outplaying them, if alive, they are either making gains elsewhere or not achieving anything because they are playing worse against fewer numbers.

My main overall problem with it is that both sides start with equal resources, it is a matter of how well they work together or the choices they make in how those resources are utilised that should make the difference and I don't think a mechanic making one player stronger, than two or three belongs in a competitive team game, especially in a case where it either overrules that a team has performed better than the other or that one player has gotten himself into a bad situation and is staying there because revenge will pop, nor should any other consideration. What I would like to see are a few team game modes with no extras, no gear,no feats, no boosts, no revenge, just the kits they have been given.

I agree that having no revenge at all would promote more teamwork because everyone is more vulnerable now on their own. For Honor hasn't really forced team work due the safety net of revenge; and although it was nerfed you still have time to stall and wait for help or time to flee a situation you perhaps shouldn't have gotten in. By removing revenge you also greatly remove incentives to fight for a zone. If I'm on a Zone should I have to concede that zone when I see two dots heading my direction and know I probably have a small chance of surviving the encounter? I could 1 vs 2 if I feel confident and call for help and try stalling until it comes. So basically we are reducing action in the game by enticing people to play it safe or risk a high percentage death without revenge. I'm torn on the issue because I feel it forces teamwork when playing with randos would be having to hope and rely on getting good team members. As it is the game still requires some decent amount of teamwork but it isn't critical either. I'm 100% in support of a mode where revenge isn't a part of the game; perhaps the developers can experiment with this mode as an event like they did when we all played without indicators. Let the community try and see how it changes the experience and then after a test it could be another regular option. Revenge is there to give you balls to face off against 1 vs 2 or 3 when you should of called for a teammate first. There would be less action but there would be smart action. Now since thats another topic debate Id like to Know what drawbacks people would see to my revenge rework. Would it be too strong when triggered 1 vs 2? I hate it triggers is 1 vs 1 but I suppose they can't work around it or they would have.

[CandleInTheDark]

Going into a 1v2 Situation is only bad play because Revenge is bad. If revenge was actually decent going 1v2 wasnt a bad decision. So this is kinda not an arguement because it is already a consequence of the topic, revenge is beeing bad.

If I read you correctly, you think my point is that getting into 1v2 is bad because revenge is not powerful enough to deal with 1vx, that isn't my point at all. What I am saying is people should not get into 1vx unless they feel they can handle 1vx at all and that an added power boost,especially when 1vx often comes when you are either choosing to stay in a bad position or, in the case of elimination, when the other team has outperformed yours, rewards them for bad gameplay, whether theirs or that of their team.

People are going into situations where if there was no such thing as revenge they would be considered bad choices and in my view, the revenge mechanic and buffing that rewards bad decision making and that is not how you get players to make better choices nor how to get them to work better as a team. Most people that hark back to revenge as it was in its original state, and I do not aim this in any way at the op because he specifically said that we do not need a god mode revenge, are people who felt that if more than one person attacked them then they should have a right to be as strong as the number of people attacking them like they are an end game boss in a single player mode, people were actually arguing that when the devs were telling us that changes to revenge were coming.

Yeah deathballing sucks and as Knight_Raime says the answer to that is to rework the game modes themselves to discourage that. It is punishable in the current state, I kept a deathball occupied for a minute and a half in a white zone and caused a 500 point swing, that is because my team capitalised on that though which yeah depends on the team you get.

[WarGods1]

Honestly do we even need revenge? The problem I have always had with this is the assumption that it is ok to get into bad situation because revenge will help to even the score. The problem I have with this is that the 4v4 modes are all team games, whether that is elimination in which the teams go until all are dead, skirmish which is a rolling 4v4 fight, dominion or tribute in which objectives are more important than kills or brawl which whether it is played as a fight or series of 1v1's is, like elimination, a go until everyone is dead kind of thing.

So the thing here is that 1vx will come for a very few reasons. In elimination, they come either because a team is short handed or someone is looking for a boost or revive when teams are otherwise evenly matched in terms of numbers. In either occasion if you are in 1vx it is because the other team is playing better than you, either in terms of they have taken your allies out or are working better as a team. Same with brawl on a smaller scale with no boosts.

In skirmish, again, the teams start with equal resources, if there is a mismatch, it is because a few people are dead and waiting the next revive spawn or someone has left the fight to look for a boost, if the former, the other team have earned that advantage, if the latter the risk is taken by that player and it is up to his team to cover for them.

In dominion and tribute, the teams are supposed to work together in order to achieve shared goals, if someone is getting into a 1vx, then that is generally through their own choosing, whether defending an objective in which case what is the rest of the team doing? If dead, again the other team are outplaying them, if alive, they are either making gains elsewhere or not achieving anything because they are playing worse against fewer numbers.

My main overall problem with it is that both sides start with equal resources, it is a matter of how well they work together or the choices they make in how those resources are utilised that should make the difference and I don't think a mechanic making one player stronger, than two or three belongs in a competitive team game, especially in a case where it either overrules that a team has performed better than the other or that one player has gotten himself into a bad situation and is staying there because revenge will pop, nor should any other consideration. What I would like to see are a few team game modes with no extras, no gear,no feats, no boosts, no revenge, just the kits they have been given.

Dude you gotta understand that allot of the people liked revenge before it was useless because it gaved them a chance to fight back against multiple enemys. Not everyone here likes going around in packs ganking (where's the fun in that??). You say remove revenge altogether? Hell no i could not disagree more. I had several friends that left this game because of the direction this game has taken (I am sure many other players have stopped playing this game for this very reason). I had stayed playing this game in hopes that they will fix revenge and actually make it useful again but i don't think it's gonna happen until the games dead and then ubi will realize it.

[CandleInTheDark]

If I'm on a Zone should I have to concede that zone when I see two dots heading my direction and know I probably have a small chance of surviving the encounter? I could 1 vs 2 if I feel confident and call for help and try stalling until it comes.

It depends, in a pug more likely than not you're screwed, if you have a group which will be more viable when servers are in and polished and there is communication going on, if we have two zones I would call for help or cede that zone, if it is a three or four strong pack, then I would tell my allies I am going to try running to back up whoever is killing soldiers or trying to take the soldier lane or who is boosting the other zone or trying to take it. on the season 4 stream, we saw that against a communicating team murderball doesn't work as they would just rotate the zones (also helped that nobushi was godly enough in the hands of the people who used her she could 1v2 and do a rolling 1v3-4 at one point).

Now since thats another topic debate Id like to Know what drawbacks people would see to my revenge rework. Would it be too strong when triggered 1 vs 2? I hate it triggers is 1 vs 1 but I suppose they can't work around it or they would have.

I wouldn't be mad at some form of either idea being tried to see how they go, I do think that they have potential to be overpowered in 1v2 but if the devs tried it in a PTS or an event then that is the purpose of seeing how changes like that would play out on a larger scale.

[Waynedetta40k]

Dude you gotta understand that allot of the people liked revenge before it was useless because it gaved them a chance to fight back against multiple enemys.

One Reason I did quit was revenge a year ago. I had a PK taking 70% of me playing shugoki with feats and revenge on in like 2 seconds. Like a light + Zone srsly that was ********.

[WarGods1]

One Reason I did quit was revenge a year ago. I had a PK taking 70% of me playing shugoki with feats and revenge on in like 2 seconds. Like a light + Zone srsly that was ********.

Well when the game first came out i agree revenge was op, but then again so was the gear stats back then. I don't want revenge to be like back then. But the way they changed revenge from being op to being almost useless is what pisses me off. Honestly a simple tweak to revenge so that all unblockables work as regural heavy attacks while revenge is active would make a big difference to me.

[pure_energist]

The developers once responded to my question on their intent on how they wanted revenge to be used when they created the mechanic. They said basically it was for stalling and waiting for reinforcement or for retreat. Currently there is little stalling capability due to the unblockable spams so Id like to see it buffed to it can be useful again. I dont want more damage I dont want more health, just the ability to defend against unblockablea.

[WarGods1]

The developers once responded to my question on their intent on how they wanted revenge to be used when they created the mechanic. They said basically it was for stalling and waiting for reinforcement or for retreat. Currently there is little stalling capability due to the unblockable spams so Id like to see it buffed to it can be useful again. I dont want more damage I dont want more health, just the ability to defend against unblockablea.

I agree completely, it is the unblockable spams that have completely taken the fun out of this game for me. Like i stated above, a simple tweak to revenge to make unblockables work as regular heavys would make a significant difference.

[We.the.North]

I dont mind revenge giving a shield and uninterruptible. It's the auto-parry knockdown + damage boost that pisses me off.

As a Shinobi player, I already start with low health. But when an Orochi (for instance) can get 2 boosted heavy attack after he "parries" knockdown me by activating revenge and ONE SHOTS ME with that move, it's ******ed.

Add revenge gear and you have yet another thing beside ******ed feats that takes away skill from this game.

The game is a joke already past its saving point. Not even the dedicated server can fix this mess of a game design.

[Tirik22x]

"The other team is doing better,so I, as a single player, should be stronger than two or three others on that team,to make up for it", to me, that is the ridiculous concept.

Uh... yes. Exactly.

Guess you’ve never been a leader, or underdog in a fight, or sport, and that little thing called adrenaline kicks in.