Revenge and Unblockable rework | Forums

[pure_energist]

Having been away from the community this may have already been discussed; however, it is something since the character reworks I feel makes it an even more pressing issue that the developers might want to consider. Since the reworking of characters seems to be adding more unblockable attacks then this obviously translates to more unblockable attacks being thrown out during group fights. We have Revenge that is supposed to assist us in surviving these fights; and yes being able to parry will knock down an attacker any other attacking at the same time: HOWEVER, unblockable attacks almost ALWAYS have different attacks speeds then the usual heavy thrown. This attack speed difference is what greatly hinders being able to effectively defend against multiple unblockables. Parry one unblockable only to eat another that had a much slower start up and timing. So the obvious solution 'to me' is that a rework on revenge is needed. The best fix would be to simply allow revenge to block unlbockables without needing to parry them. Allow us to defend against multiple unblockables without having to worry how our parry will open us up to eat one. The other solution is to widen the window where we get multipe parries on attacks. Currently if I parry one attacker the other attacker will hit me during the animation; make it so any attacks that connect during that animation Knock down the opponent as if they were parried as well. Just a brief look at the forum has shown a lot of player base upset how the rework is now making unblockables an unwanted nuisance and the game less fun. We don't need the godlike revenge back; we just need one that is capable of keeping up with the current trend of more unblockables spamming that was created by the developers decision that they are now a big part of every characters arsenal of attacks.

[CandleInTheDark]

Honestly do we even need revenge? The problem I have always had with this is the assumption that it is ok to get into bad situation because revenge will help to even the score. The problem I have with this is that the 4v4 modes are all team games, whether that is elimination in which the teams go until all are dead, skirmish which is a rolling 4v4 fight, dominion or tribute in which objectives are more important than kills or brawl which whether it is played as a fight or series of 1v1's is, like elimination, a go until everyone is dead kind of thing.

So the thing here is that 1vx will come for a very few reasons. In elimination, they come either because a team is short handed or someone is looking for a boost or revive when teams are otherwise evenly matched in terms of numbers. In either occasion if you are in 1vx it is because the other team is playing better than you, either in terms of they have taken your allies out or are working better as a team. Same with brawl on a smaller scale with no boosts.

In skirmish, again, the teams start with equal resources, if there is a mismatch, it is because a few people are dead and waiting the next revive spawn or someone has left the fight to look for a boost, if the former, the other team have earned that advantage, if the latter the risk is taken by that player and it is up to his team to cover for them.

In dominion and tribute, the teams are supposed to work together in order to achieve shared goals, if someone is getting into a 1vx, then that is generally through their own choosing, whether defending an objective in which case what is the rest of the team doing? If dead, again the other team are outplaying them, if alive, they are either making gains elsewhere or not achieving anything because they are playing worse against fewer numbers.

My main overall problem with it is that both sides start with equal resources, it is a matter of how well they work together or the choices they make in how those resources are utilised that should make the difference and I don't think a mechanic making one player stronger than two or three belongs in a competitive team game, especially in a case where it either overrules that a team has performed better than the other or that one player has gotten himself into a bad situation and is staying there because revenge will pop, nor should any other consideration. What I would like to see are a few team game modes with no extras, no gear,no feats, no boosts, no revenge, just the kits they have been given.

[Tirik22x]

Honestly do we even need revenge? The problem I have always had with this is the assumption that it is ok to get into bad situation because revenge will help to even the score. The problem I have with this is that the 4v4 modes are all team games, whether that is elimination in which the teams go until all are dead, skirmish which is a rolling 4v4 fight, dominion or tribute in which objectives are more important than kills or brawl which whether it is played as a fight or series of 1v1's is, like elimination, a go until everyone is dead kind of thing.

So the thing here is that 1vx will come for a very few reasons. In elimination, they come either because a team is short handed or someone is looking for a boost or revive when teams are otherwise evenly matched in terms of numbers. In either occasion if you are in 1vx it is because the other team is playing better than you, either in terms of they have taken your allies out or are working better as a team. Same with brawl on a smaller scale with no boosts.

In skirmish, again, the teams start with equal resources, if there is a mismatch, it is because a few people are dead and waiting the next revive spawn or someone has left the fight to look for a boost, if the former, the other team have earned that advantage, if the latter the risk is taken by that player and it is up to his team to cover for them.

In dominion and tribute, the teams are supposed to work together in order to achieve shared goals, if someone is getting into a 1vx, then that is generally through their own choosing, whether defending an objective in which case what is the rest of the team doing? If dead, again the other team are outplaying them, if alive, they are either making gains elsewhere or not achieving anything because they are playing worse against fewer numbers.

My main overall problem with it is that both sides start with equal resources, it is a matter of how well they work together or the choices they make in how those resources are utilised that should make the difference and I don't think a mechanic making one player stronger, than two or three belongs in a competitive team game, especially in a case where it either overrules that a team has performed better than the other or that one player has gotten himself into a bad situation and is staying there because revenge will pop, nor should any other consideration. What I would like to see are a few team game modes with no extras, no gear,no feats, no boosts, no revenge, just the kits they have been given.

This... was ridiculous.

And entertaining the idea of no revenge with an actual rebuttal is literally not even needed.

“We shouldn’t get revenge bc the other team is doing better” I’m sorry... but, Daaaa***?

[CandleInTheDark]

This... was ridiculous.

And entertaining the idea of no revenge with an actual rebuttal is literally not even needed.

“We shouldn’t get revenge bc the other team is doing better” I’m sorry... but, Daaaa***?

"The other team is doing better,so I, as a single player, should be stronger than two or three others on that team,to make up for it", to me, that is the ridiculous concept.

[swiss_soldier_1]

The best fix would be to simply allow revenge to block unlbockables without needing to parry them.

this is a simple yet very effective solution. i support it.

maybe they could also add two different types of revenge, one (normal one) that comes in 1v1 and 1v2 fights, and super revenge if you are facing 3+ opponents, which would grant you the ability to just block the unblockables

[Waynedetta40k]

Honestly do we even need revenge? The problem I have always had with this is the assumption that it is ok to get into bad situation .

Dont get me wrong I do not completly disagree with all what you say but this sentence is kinda wrong.
Going into a 1v2 Situation is only bad play because Revenge is bad. If revenge was actually decent going 1v2 wasnt a bad decision. So this is kinda not an arguement because it is already a consequence of the topic, revenge is beeing bad.

I agree 4v4 modes should somewhat encourage teamplay but not deathball. Deathballing sucks it feels like cluster**** and this combatsystem doesnt support it. Sometimes my camera bugs behind wall if multiple people hit me, Everything glows its confusing af.

Force people to actually make splitting/walking together important decisions and not just "go as 4 and throw unblockables" because that is what it feels most of the time right now. 4v4 feels like ******** cluster****.

My main overall problem with it is that both sides start with equal resources, it is a matter of how well they work together .

Dont make it sound as it was tought out decision making in 4v4 right now because it isnt.
Its just luck if your mates want to communicate or actually just walk as team or not and how good the enemy team goes together on the very lowest level of decisionmaking: Deathball yay or nay? If I go with 4 people the most efficient tactic is easylie played an achieved there is no difficulty behind it but its unfun.

Deathball rotating there is no magic behind it, no complex teamplay like you make it sound.

that comes in 1v1

Hell NO **** NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I dont even in particuliar want revenge to be buffed. I want deathballing to be punished.

[Knight_Raime]

I can understand why people want revenge buffed. I just don't agree with it.
Revenge is supposed to give you a chance to deal with being ganked. Not give you a win with it. I have witnessed lots of people on YT and streams use revenge to beat ganks with a variety of heros regardless of unblockable spam used against them or not.

The real problem isn't that revenge isn't strong enough but that 4v4 (at least dominion) does absolutely nothing to discourage ganking what so ever. imo dominion needs a rework (which I convienantly had a thread for) so there is more emphasis on defending points rather than slaying to get to the score limit faster.

It would also help if feats received a few big changes (something I discuss in that same thread) and they introduced deminishing returns for 4v4.

[Knight_Raime]

Dont get me wrong I do not completly disagree with all what you say but this sentence is kinda wrong.
Going into a 1v2 Situation is only bad play because Revenge is bad. If revenge was actually decent going 1v2 wasnt a bad decision. So this is kinda not an arguement because it is already a consequence of the topic, revenge is beeing bad.

I agree 4v4 modes should somewhat encourage teamplay but not deathball. Deathballing sucks it feels like cluster**** and this combatsystem doesnt support it. Sometimes my camera bugs behind wall if multiple people hit me, Everything glows its confusing af.

Force people to actually make splitting/walking together important decisions and not just "go as 4 and throw unblockables" because that is what it feels most of the time right now. 4v4 feels like ******** cluster****.

The point candle is making is that revenge shouldn't be used to give you the w in 1vx situations. and that typically speaking if the enemy team has a number advantage on you it's either because you were out of position and thus deserve the death. or the enemy team played better. in either situation no player should reasonably expect to win. Revenge or not.

[Waynedetta40k]

The point candle is making is that revenge shouldn't be used to give you the w in 1vx situations. and that typically speaking if the enemy team has a number advantage on you it's either because you were out of position and thus deserve the death. or the enemy team played better. in either situation no player should reasonably expect to win. Revenge or not.

Yes and what I said is them counting on Numberadvantage is only good because revenge is bad.

The real problem isn't that revenge isn't strong enough but that 4v4 (at least dominion) does absolutely nothing to discourage ganking what so ever. imo dominion needs a rework (which I convienantly had a thread for) so there is more emphasis on defending points rather than slaying to get to the score limit faster.

I agree on this one. Could be a step in the right direction. Personally I think the gamemodes are not choosen wisley. Iam not sure if Dominion the the form and shape we have it right now is a good mode with that combat system. The gamemodes lack creativity which is actually needed for this game.

[WarGods1]

I defenitly agree man, I have stopped playing this game because lately all you see in dominion is cowards travelling in packs an ganking. I would love to see this revenge rework so i could crush all those cowards and make them kneel before me lol. But seriously +1 to this idea.