Senior Member
Berserker recently got some changes and calling them a rework, i would say this rework is lackluster.
It's not like it is a pure power-up, its more like a rebalance.
I know people there are people complaining about Berserkers 400ms lights, but those are already no real problem.
Opening up enemies is basically the same as befor on higher lvls - intensive mindgames.
While i think, that the lack of a real opener isn't such a major problem anymore with all other changes like parry etc. it wouldn't be that bad to have something.
I adapted the recent changes pretty well and noticed some points which are big disadvantagesand need a little up to medium push.
Problems
1. Stamina
2. Slashing Rush
3. Bear Mauler
4. Top Heavy Finisher
5. Melee Attack (Opener) This one is optional
Stamina:
The biggest problem with Berserkers stamina is, that his main focus now is even more on feint and feints consme a huge amount of stamina - that means if you want to keep a high lvl mindgame you will burn through your stamina really fast.
Now, the closest option would be to reduce the stamina consumption for berserkers feints, but i guess there would come problems with such a change.
1. Why his feint cost wouldn't be in line with every other hero, and everyone needs to feint
2. This would enable 400ms lightspam even more - currently only the stamina cost keeps it in a "good place"
This means, such a boost would be always there and could be considered an unfair advantage, especially because people already struggle with it.
3. Such a plane change wouldn't bring much to berserkers gameplay and here i want to go to my next point - Slashing Rush, and how it could be used to balance out and justify a Stamina improvement for Berserker.
5. (Optional)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Melee Attack - Sucker Punch
Removing the unblockable on the top heavy finisher but adding an unblockable punch.
This punch is only useable in the Dance of the Paired Blades.
It only deals stamina dmg and wouldn't allow any free dmg.
Speed 500-600 ms depending on the chain order. After a heavy it is 500ms, after a light it is 600ms
A sucker punch can't be chained after a sucker punch.
It would knock down OOS enemies, but the knock down will only give the next attack as a free hit.
Means a light if it is a heavy punch, a heavy if it is a light punch and to get much punish ending the chain with a top heavy.
Those Changes to Top heavy, Bear Mauler and Slashing Rush would be enough to even out Berserkers critical flaws.
I would like to here some feedback from you guys.
A second option (overworked suggestion)
B:
1. Stamina
Feint cost reduction by 5 stamina
2. Slashing rush
- Total stamina cost 55
- Splitts up in 25, 15 and 15 stamina cost
- Cancelable with dodge after first and second swing
3. Bear Mauler
Holding a side heavy after a feint skips the first chain of bear mauler and starts with the second chain.
You will still consum the stamina on the first heavy which you are skipping.
This would make Bear Maulers finisher much easier to access but would cost the double amount of stamina.
4. Top heavy finisher
800ms and small recovey adjustment on hit.
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Senior Member
Did i say so much about dmg output?Originally Posted by kanuzira Go to original post
Where does he have the highest damage output?
He is pretty much in line with most other heroes.
Trading dmg with 120 isn't optimal for him - the only advantage is, that he can go on after the trade while the enemy can't.
Trading on purpose is an option you should rather avoid and only do it if the situation allows it (like a finishing blow)
I do not disagree with you, that other OG chars, need a treatment.
He is as fine, as he was befor.
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He is probably the only character who can kill the Level 0 PK in How to playOriginally Posted by S0Mi_xD Go to original postEven if it needs good gear and precise timing. (Except for Shugoki who can bring himself to critical health by missing Demon Embrace on purpose and then doing it on the PK resulting in an insta-kill from full health)
Now on a serious note. I can't talk about slashing rush, because I only ever used it once by mistake. Regarding stamina, yes. It is currently the most limiting element for Zerker, but I don't have an idea how to fix it. The only think I can think of is increase his regeneration, just as Gladiator has. That way you would drain through stamina just as fast, which would not allow for more 400ms lightspam you mentioned, but you could attack more often.
As for the rest I would have some notes.
Bear Mauler:
I am not against this part. It would definitely bring the Bear Mauler finisher into play more often. However if this happens I think the damage of this should be reduced. Simply because it would be a lot easier to access. This would become a new OOS punish because it does 80 free damage (instead of current 68, which is already higher than most characters have). If you get to Bear Mauler this way, reduce the damage from 35+45 to 30+40. The OOS punish would be 70 free damage - 2 added for increased stamina cost and lost follow-up potential.
Top Heavy Chain finisher:
Either make it faster or increase damage, not both.
Top heavy chain finisher is not in a good spot right now. It is more of a "Wait what I will feint into" tool than actual damage dealer. It is slow, easily dodgeable and the damage is not that good if you actually land it. But I feel like increasing the speed AND damage would be a bit too much considering how easy you can access this attack (you can chain it after a single light attack).
If I had to chose from these two I would be more for the speed increase. The damage increase is useless if you never land the attack. Be it because you feint or the enemy dodges. Making this move 800ms or even 700ms would make it more viable and relevant. (700 might be too much, but it is still slower than a chained side heavy and still does only 30 damage, which is less than a heavy opener).
Sucker Punch:
I really can't tell if this is a good idea or a bad idea, but I see one flaw in your proposal - Free heavy attack after light punch and light attack after heavy punch. I don't agree with this. The light punch is faster and easier to land, so it does not make sense that the reward should be better than from the heavy punch.
Senior Member
Slashing Rush is a great skill, but it is redundand due to the high stamina cost.Now on a serious note. I can't talk about slashing rush, because I only ever used it once by mistake. Regarding stamina, yes. It is currently the most limiting element for Zerker, but I don't have an idea how to fix it. The only think I can think of is increase his regeneration, just as Gladiator has. That way you would drain through stamina just as fast, which would not allow for more 400ms lightspam you mentioned, but you could attack more often.
The change i suggest would balance out slashing rushs cost and give a small bonus stamina for berserekers offense.
Or you could cancel it Slashing rush befor it is finished, you don't consume the full stamina but don't get the buff.
No, if you would feint the side heavy in a OOS punish it would only hit with the one heavy, the second would be parryable - i isn't worth it as an OOS punish.Bear Mauler:
I am not against this part. It would definitely bring the Bear Mauler finisher into play more often. However if this happens I think the damage of this should be reduced. Simply because it would be a lot easier to access. This would become a new OOS punish because it does 80 free damage (instead of current 68, which is already higher than most characters have). If you get to Bear Mauler this way, reduce the damage from 35+45 to 30+40. The OOS punish would be 70 free damage - 2 added for increased stamina cost and lost follow-up potential.
The stamina cost is the same, and you woudn't lose the follow up potential, you can still go for a normal heavy after a feint, but you have the additional option to go into the second bear mauler instead of the normal heavy after a feint.
Yeah maybe both would be to much, i would like to see a speed change and recovery on hit, because it is really huge for such a low dmg.Top Heavy Chain finisher:
Either make it faster or increase damage, not both.
Top heavy chain finisher is not in a good spot right now. It is more of a "Wait what I will feint into" tool than actual damage dealer. It is slow, easily dodgeable and the damage is not that good if you actually land it. But I feel like increasing the speed AND damage would be a bit too much considering how easy you can access this attack (you can chain it after a single light attack).
If I had to chose from these two I would be more for the speed increase. The damage increase is useless if you never land the attack. Be it because you feint or the enemy dodges. Making this move 800ms or even 700ms would make it more viable and relevant. (700 might be too much, but it is still slower than a chained side heavy and still does only 30 damage, which is less than a heavy opener).
The recovery is so high because it was his combofinisher with a huge dmg - and that changed completely.
The light punch is the slower one and the heavy punch is the faster one - a heavy punch comes after a heavy, means instead of the light.Sucker Punch:
I really can't tell if this is a good idea or a bad idea, but I see one flaw in your proposal - Free heavy attack after light punch and light attack after heavy punch. I don't agree with this. The light punch is faster and easier to land, so it does not make sense that the reward should be better than from the heavy punch.
The free dmg on OOS isn't really needed, the punch would be enough.
But thank you for the feedback ^^
At least one person can give a feedback.
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Senior Member
Weird. I always thought it's a good thing different heroes have some kind of weakness. Not saying Berserker is perfect, but to me, he seems pretty strong and a lot of his matchups are balanced or do even slightly favor him. Actually, when comparing to Kensei (I like the Kensei rework the most), he seems to be closes to Kensei's rework in terms of "playability" with the slight advantage of even more speed (I am a console player, so believe me when I say 400ms attacks on console are incredibly strong - not unbeatable but strong!) in trade of no permanent guard, shorter range but higher damage. So .. he is a pretty fine Viking Hero now.
Senior Member
I agree with herb, I think zerker is doing pretty well on consoles right now, at least 1 or 2 in every match. That soft feint 400 ms attack is hard to react to, a good mixup artist with him can really do some serious damage.
If you're on PC I guess 400 ms attacks aren't super strong though so I can see his buff not seeming very big on there.
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I personally think that the berserker rework doesn't even compare to the kensei rework. Berserker rework also isn't really a rework. Just some adjustments. The kensei has so many more tools. His side dash is the best in the game by a significant margin. Gets so many options out of it. Has a pummel strike. The berserker and kensei are on completely different levels. He has infinitely more options. He has multiple ways to initiate and multiple combos to feint into that are all different. The fastest zone attack I've ever seen that can also be cancelled into a bunch of different moves. The berserker,although good, is severely lacking good options still. And his stamina consumption is insane.Originally Posted by Herbstlicht Go to original post
Senior Member
True, his "rework" was definitely more like the Highlander rebalance than the Kensei's. I still don't think he's that bad though, Conq and Kensei are very annoying right now for me, especially a good conq, he's hard for anyone to open up, even when he's attacking.Originally Posted by XJadeDragoonX Go to original post
I had a Conq who must have had crazy high revenge attack stats last night hit me with 28 damage light attacks, one punch through attack did 40 damage without revenge on.
