Season 5 - Nobushi Feedback | Forums

[GH.Arturace]

Hi, I'm a rep 40+ Nobushi player with a lot of experience in the game. I can be wrong pretty easily though, so if something comes up being false, please do correct me.



Death Rattle Form

Previously, before the season 5 update, nobushi could do 2 backstep top heavy attacks. This is no longer the case. It was a useful tech and made it unique to not only nobushi, but also to her own top guard. If the second heavy was on any other side, she would walk forward during the attack.

Please tell me if the removal of the double backstep is intentional, because it could've been used as a mixup and to create distance from your opponent (much better than the swift recoil still).

Swift Recoil

Better, but still pretty useless while the HS exists. It is almost always gets triggered in a ganking situation while trying to dodge something and accidentally blocking someone's attack. It wouldn't be a problem if any attacks thrown before the swift recoil wouldn't track to you (which pretty much all do and you have no block. It would be interesting if it did had fullblock during and the stamina cost would be justified). Even if you did add a followup, there should be more in the future if you want this to be a viable move. It could be like the hidden stance on steroids. Meaning you should have more options after it. Compared to another move that happens on block, lb's shove, this uses way too much stamina and has less direct followups. I believe it should offer the ability to strike back, with a new charge-up strike. One day maybe.

Also, currently there is a 200ms space between the viper's retreat and the recoil. Would be great to not have that at all, so you can use it in a gank.

As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong, but the viper's retreat seems to be having a shorter range than before... An explanation or a fix would be nice.

Kick

I was curious what you will end up doing with the kick! I don't particularly agree with your decision, but it's better than nothing and does offer more flexibility against the opponent dodging her attacks and lets her punish opponents with a fast recovery after a bash (example, wl's headbut). The range will be missed though, unnecessary.

HOWEVER. I think there is a way of making melee moves viable without making them necessarily faster. Look at the previous state of HL's kick into toss (we are going to ignore the tracking issues, think of it like it is now). Previously, there was a specific timing that would let you dodge both the kick and the grab, but now it is a pure 50/50. Now imagine, if the kick is slowed down and get HA, the feint into the toss could have a flexible timing which would result in actual skill to avoid. Same can be done with Nobushi's kick imo, but let it be canceled into something more, a new move perhaps. One day.

Quick note, the stamina drain for a missed kick is absolutely unjustified and limits her ability to go into the hidden stance and continue applying pressure or defending herself.


Pretty weird pose, eh? Some improvement in the future would be nice.

Zone

I find your reasoning for the nerfs a bit weird. I don't understand why can there not be a character that is better at one thing than the other. Look at pk for a second. Her zone is hits hard, fast and has the weirdest hitboxes (it's radius doesn't make sense) in the game alongside Kensei's new zone. However, it does use a fair bit of stamina. now let's go back to the Nobushi zone: not the slowest, but easy to parry and is telegraphed incredibly well to the person she is locked on (and can have recovery if not dodged out). And, compared to raidei's unblockable zone, that is unpariable for unlocked-on opponents, nobushi's zone is blockable. In any case, 10 dmg reduction on the first strike would've been enough and the second strike shouldn't been touched at all, because if you land that you should get something worthy.

Besides, now you do not let characters switch their targets for an immediate attack after a parry. Meaning, if I parry an opponent I was locked on and switch to another and do a zone, nobushi will do it as if she was locked on the parried opponent. This reduces her control over the opponents way too much.

Dmg changes

Love em. You made the HS heavy useful by simply making the double light less powerful. However, I'd take bleed over raw dmg thanks to the way of the shark. But, the guaranteed kick from the heavy on some characters is nice.

Lock on dodge attacks and HS

Talking about berzerker and orochi. I honestly believe that the stance should be able to dodge their side dodge attacks. For berzerker this is not an issue thanks for the Hyperarmor followup and orochi has his light chain. But just the ability to initiate your main move, should be allowed in my opinion and not be punished by a new kind of locked on attacks. This of course is needed so nobushi can dodge their attacks after cancelling a recovery from a missed attack. Not a critical problem however.

Overall suggestions

Remove the stamina regeneration lock on the hidden stance after coming back to neutral (from an attack or just a release). It is so huge and really limits the character. This is a bare minimum to drastically improve what the character is capable of. not asking for a cost removal, Iframe increase or startup increase. At least this should give her a lot of help till an eventual rework further down the line.

[BTTrinity]

Hi, I'm a rep 40+ Nobushi player with a lot of experience in the game. I can be wrong pretty easily though, so if something comes up being false, please do correct me.



Death Rattle Form

Previously, before the season 5 update, nobushi could do 2 backstep top heavy attacks. This is no longer the case. It was a useful tech and made it unique to not only nobushi, but also to her own top guard. If the second heavy was on any other side, she would walk forward during the attack.

Please tell me if the removal of the double backstep is intentional, because it could've been used as a mixup and to create distance from your opponent (much better than the swift recoil still).

Swift Recoil

Better, but still pretty useless while the HS exists. It is almost always gets triggered in a ganking situation while trying to dodge something and accidentally blocking someone's attack. It wouldn't be a problem if any attacks thrown before the swift recoil wouldn't track to you (which pretty much all do and you have no block. It would be interesting if it did had fullblock during and the stamina cost would be justified). Even if you did add a followup, there should be more in the future if you want this to be a viable move. It could be like the hidden stance on steroids. Meaning you should have more options after it. Compared to another move that happens on block, lb's shove, this uses way too much stamina and has less direct followups. I believe it should offer the ability to strike back, with a new charge-up strike. One day maybe.

Also, currently there is a 200ms space between the viper's retreat and the recoil. Would be great to not have that at all, so you can use it in a gank.

As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong, but the viper's retreat seems to be having a shorter range than before... An explanation or a fix would be nice.

Kick

I was curious what you will end up doing with the kick! I don't particularly agree with your decision, but it's better than nothing and does offer more flexibility against the opponent dodging her attacks and lets her punish opponents with a fast recovery after a bash (example, wl's headbut). The range will be missed though, unnecessary.

HOWEVER. I think there is a way of making melee moves viable without making them necessarily faster. Look at the previous state of HL's kick into toss (we are going to ignore the tracking issues, think of it like it is now). Previously, there was a specific timing that would let you dodge both the kick and the grab, but now it is a pure 50/50. Now imagine, if the kick is slowed down and get HA, the feint into the toss could have a flexible timing which would result in actual skill to avoid. Same can be done with Nobushi's kick imo, but let it be canceled into something more, a new move perhaps. One day.

Quick note, the stamina drain for a missed kick is absolutely unjustified and limits her ability to go into the hidden stance and continue applying pressure or defending herself.


Pretty weird pose, eh? Some improvement in the future would be nice.

Zone

I find your reasoning for the nerfs a bit weird. I don't understand why can there not be a character that is better at one thing than the other. Look at pk for a second. Her zone is hits hard, fast and has the weirdest hitboxes (it's radius doesn't make sense) in the game alongside Kensei's new zone. However, it does use a fair bit of stamina. now let's go back to the Nobushi zone: not the slowest, but easy to parry and is telegraphed incredibly well to the person she is locked on (and can have recovery if not dodged out). And, compared to raidei's unblockable zone, that is unpariable for unlocked-on opponents, nobushi's zone is blockable. In any case, 10 dmg reduction on the first strike would've been enough and the second strike shouldn't been touched at all, because if you land that you should get something worthy.

Besides, now you do not let characters switch their targets for an immediate attack after a parry. Meaning, if I parry an opponent I was locked on and switch to another and do a zone, nobushi will do it as if she was locked on the parried opponent. This reduces her control over the opponents way too much.

Dmg changes

Love em. You made the HS heavy useful by simply making the double light less powerful. However, I'd take bleed over raw dmg thanks to the way of the shark. But, the guaranteed kick from the heavy on some characters is nice.

Lock on dodge attacks and HS

Talking about berzerker and orochi. I honestly believe that the stance should be able to dodge their side dodge attacks. For berzerker this is not an issue thanks for the Hyperarmor followup and orochi has his light chain. But just the ability to initiate your main move, should be allowed in my opinion and not be punished by a new kind of locked on attacks. This of course is needed so nobushi can dodge their attacks after cancelling a recovery from a missed attack. Not a critical problem however.

Overall suggestions

Remove the stamina regeneration lock on the hidden stance after coming back to neutral (from an attack or just a release). It is so huge and really limits the character. This is a bare minimum to drastically improve what the character is capable of. not asking for a cost removal, Iframe increase or startup increase. At least this should give her a lot of help till an eventual rework further down the line.

I can agree with this post, especially your suggestion. (Besides for taking damage nerfs to far, her zone is nearly worthless now dealing the same damage as orochi, ON TOP of the parry range nerf making her range next to useless.)

Id also like to be able to use her dodge attacks a bit later into her dodge.

[GH.Arturace]

I can agree with this post, especially your suggestion. (Besides for taking damage nerfs to far, her zone is nearly worthless now dealing the same damage as orochi, ON TOP of the parry range nerf making her range next to useless.)

Id also like to be able to use her dodge attacks a bit later into her dodge.

With the new kensei like delay ability and her current low startup on the dodge attacks, it could work really well.