Junior Member
There are already a few opinions in other threads of the forum about this topic.
I'll just put those here to keep the overview a bit.
ZOMBIEMOWER123 wrote:
"Conqueror shield uppercut is far too slow, and has no range. Literally useless move.
There is no point of it being in his moveset. It's dodged far too easily. And even if the opponent falls for the heavy, they will either throw their heavy out to parry your heavy and once tou cancel into shield uppercut, their heavy will just knock you out of it, or just dodge and get a free GB. The full block stance is also far too slow."
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...y-useless-move
Duskmare wrote:
"Why the new Conqueror is worse than the old one.
So, I was looking forward to these changes. I was thinking "hurray, he's going to get some faster moves, some better chains and more options. The full block stance will be viable and he'll actually be on par with other characters for the first time since the game came out!"
Boy was I wrong...
The moves aren't noticeably faster. My light attacks are still being parried almost every second attack.
The heavies are now entirely useless because they're still as slow but now you never get a guaranteed heavy. So if you try to use one you'll just get parried and the enemy will get free damage, even if it's now only a light attack.
The shield bash is slower than it was originally from dodge and now does reduced stamina damage and only gives you a light attack.
The shield bash mixup is just as slow as it always was except there's no reason to use it now because it doesn't give you a free heavy any more.
The shield uppercut heavy cancel is awful. It doesn't even wall splat. What's the point of even using it? You turn a possible heavy into a light but at a massive stamina cost. Even then it's slow and easy to punish. It's only worth it if the enemy was trying to dodge your heavy. If they were going to block, parry or interrupt your heavy then you're stuffed because they'll just dodge, hit you or hit you, respectively, due to it's speed. Full block stance too. It can only be used against slow heavy attacks that aren't unblockable. Which is approximately 5% of moves used since no-one uses heavies unless they're fast, guaranteed or unblockable.
The flail uppercut is an awesome move but it can only be used once you get hit. This should not be the case! You should be able to punish people who come in for the guardbreak by breaking out a well timed flail uppercut. It's designed as a 'block-riposte' move but it's really bad for blocking and the riposte never gets used. Just make it a mix up attack!
Finally, the charged heavy. This is a good change for one on one but it's immensely overpowered in 4v4 modes. There's no way to block it and if you're in a fight against two people the other only has to guardbreak you or hit you and while you're recovering (even if you interrupt the guardbreak) the conqueror can get a free hit for 45 damage.
It's true that you gave him more chaining options, but you also removed his only good chaining options. Namely the heavy shield-bash mixup. His heavies don't even do that much damage! Just 25 damage for an attack so slow the moon could swing round the earth faster than the conq's flail swings round him! It's not even uninterruptable. It's just rubbish. You also nerfed the charged heavy in a way because without his superior block you can't block then get a guaranteed hit any more. I think the change to the charged heavy was overall a good change but this little nerf is still annoying. Plus, as I said the chains are still weak because the light attacks aren't fast enough to prevent constant parrying and the shieldbash mixup is really slow and entirely useless.
On another note. Why are you so against the conqueror getting feints? I mean, you just make it difficult for him rather than actually preventing it. He can still feint by triggering full block stance on a heavy start-up. Why not just map that to B and let him feint like all the other characters. You also added the heavy feint into shield bash, so it's not like he hasn't already got any feints. The only reason he was ok not having feints was because of his superior block, but guess what, you took that away too.
I would ask you to fix this... but you just tried and it's even worse now. I think I'll just stop playing Conqueror and move to Kensai. It's a shame though because I had been enjoying conqueror since the open beta."
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...an-the-old-one[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
Member
The best and probably fastest way to fix him to make him a good character would be to first make all of his attacks and moves 100-200 Milliseconds faster.
I’m thinking his lights would be 400 milliseconds and his heavys would all be 600 or 600 on the sides and 700 overhead/top but only if you add Stun to overhead attacks and bring them that up to 30 damage.
Two other thing that need to be done is
First: make his shield block on all sides activate immediately when you activate. By that I mean in like 100 or 200 milliseconds because right now it’s to slow to really counter attack with. So essentially the same speed as the Armusha’s block on all sided. This way it could be used to counter lights and heavy effectively because it could be used after an enemy has committed to an attack.
And
Second: The other thing is to give shield uppercut all the benefits of a shield bash. Give it just as much bush and make it walk solat because right now there is no reason to use it. Also make it so that if you hit someone with it whose out of stamina that get knocked down. I just deal like sense it counts more stamina in the end then a shield bash that it should have atleast have one advantage to using it.
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Thanks! I was just coming on to post my original stuff too but I'm glad to see someone thought to consolidate some of the older threads.Originally Posted by Aivendil1 Go to original post
I also added afterward: "did you also reduce his range on a lot of moves? I feel like I'm missing a lot more range-wise than I did before... Maybe that's just me though. Either way, he doesn't have a long range attack like most other characters have. Something like the kensai's new overhead leap, the shaman leap, the warden's charged shoulder bash, the highlander's spin attack, etc. The best he has is the dodge shield bash, but as I said it's pretty awful, it doesn't have nearly as much range as these other attacks either."
It seems someone else above has noticed range issues as well.
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Conq changes are good, cuz before u just need to block and u get free GB which is very dumb. and encourage turtle with him.
Now its gone, and they made his shieldbash faster near Warlord, so it can be used for offence = break turtle = offensive play which is what we need
Lawbringer has the same issue. they need to buff up his Shove by alot so it can be used like a mixup, then get rid of his block on shove. Block on shove is reactive vs Assassins but vs non-assassins its a guaranteed light off every block pretty much. and massively encourage turtle play as Lawbringer
The only character that can't punish conq bashes is Shugoki, he moves too slow with dodge and has massive recovery. after u dodge you can't light attack Conq, u cant do anything unless u have armor. but smart conq will get rid of ur armor first
The fact that conq all block has a start up time is good in my opinion and good job on that. if its instant he would be quite broken. and making him going for offence is good. People who i have versed has many times punish me for doing bash. I am at very tier since im high rep
please don't nerf or buff Conq, hes fine as is in my opinion and is in a very good spot. There are many old casts that needs to be immediately buffd to bring up with other characters.
Senior Member
Member
Who are you people and how are you so wrong?
First:
This was not how a good player played conq. Lots of heroes have unblockable attacks, fast attacks and convincing feints that could easily get through a conqueror's block.Originally Posted by Moniak.-Defray- Go to original post
Second:
This is entirely false. It's even in the patch notes that the Conqueror's dodge shield bash was increased from 600ms to 700ms. It's only his heavy shield bash that was reduced from 800 to 700, which really isn't a noticeable difference since even the old 600ms one was easy to dodge. Now it's super easy to punish, you just dodge and either light attack or guardbreak. Not only that, it only gives you a light attack, so there's no benefit here. The old 600ms attack only gave you a light attack too. At least the longer one gave you a heavy to balance the big risk of being punished for such a slow attack.Originally Posted by Moniak.-Defray- Go to original post
Third:
By "block on shove" do you mean the hyper armour he gets on shove? You do realise that doesn't prevent him from taking damage, right? It just means he can continue his attack and I think the damage he takes gets reduced by a small amount, like 25% or something. Also it's not a guaranteed light because you can dodge the light attack after the shove. "Hur dur, turtle play as lawbringer involves a really aggressive shove move that doesn't give guaranteed damage." Do you even know what you're saying or are you just throwing up jargon you've seen on other posts?Originally Posted by Moniak.-Defray- Go to original post
Fourth:
Good. The shugoki is supposed to suck at dodging. He can punish the conqueror's bash because he gets his regenerating hyper armour that can ignore the shield bash. So he just has to let it hit him then guardbreak for a bigger punish than most classes. A smart Shugoki will prevent a Conq from getting his armour off first.Originally Posted by Moniak.-Defray- Go to original post
Fifth:
Oh, it would be too powerful if it were instant? You mean like the aramusha's instant full block and riposte options? Or maybe like the Nobushi's hidden stance immunity and riposte options? As it stands the full block stance is useless because it's far too slow. You definitely can't use it on light attacks by reflex and it's only a few of the slowest heavy attacks that you can use it on, excluding the ones with unblockable status.Originally Posted by Moniak.-Defray- Go to original post
I agree that an offence capable Conq would be good but at the moment he doesn't have defence or offence on par with the other heroes. He's got slow attacks that still do far less damage than other heroes and a bash that has had it's tracking, speed and reward (stamina and damage from follow-up heavy) nerfed to near non-existence. Of course people punish your bash all the time, it's rubbish! Also, aren't you just countering what you said before about it being good for breaking defence, since it gets countered a lot?
Sixth:
No. Do not listen to this person. The conqueror will die a very swift death if some changes aren't made quickly to fix his horribly poor situation. Give his heavy attacks some decent damage, make them 100ms faster. Make his shield bash 600ms or faster, like the old one or better. Improve the new attacks. Shield uppercut has a small range a small knockback on the enemy and doesn't even wallsplat, it's also extremely slow and it has the added time of the heavy start-up. The flail uppercut is a good move but useless because the fullblock can't be used to block effectively. If you didn't have to block to use it it would be far more useful. You could surprise people moving in for the guardbreak or punish a wiffed attack that you would have blocked.Originally Posted by Moniak.-Defray- Go to original post
It's quite clear that the people above that like the changes are people that have no idea how to play conqueror. They're probably also people who are enjoying how easy it is to beat conqueror's they come across now. I sincerely hope the dev team knows the difference between what's popular and what's fair.
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Oh my goodness... Do you realise that they actually already reduced the amount of stamina damage that conq's melee attacks do to 10? Do you also know that the raider and centurion are stamina crushing machines with far safer spamming moves than the conqueror?Originally Posted by Oupyz Go to original post
Do you know that the conqueror's missed shieldbash has enough of a recovery on it for you to at least get a light attack and sometimes a guardbreak?
Really? Once out of stamina you're as good as dead? How!? What can he do? His attacks are so slow you can just dodge them. You can still block normally. He can't feint into a guardbreak so there's no need to worry about him feinting to make you dodge then throwing you on your back. Even then he only gets 45 damage while other characters can get up to 70. He's so slow you can just dodge backward and he won't be able to catch up with you. Dammit, learn how the game is played before trying to get a character nerfed just because you haven't learned to dodge properly.
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Dedicated Conq Main, here. First of all Dear Ubisoft Team: THANK YOU for taking so much Time to Rework/trying to Buff the Old Characters it truly shows that you take the Community Seriously. I mean you guys do make Mistakes (*cough* Shaman *cough*). But you always do your best to fix them. I know Balancing in a Fighting Game is a very difficult thing, so here is my take on the New Conqueror.
In my Opinion you guys Buffed him for 4v4 and Nerfed him (a bit) in 1v1. Actually he isn't a Heavy anymore, he plays much more like a Hybrid right now. Why let me show you:
CHARGED HEAVY
Yowza this move really hit the Gym. Sadly it's kinda under and Overpowered at the same Time. It's hardly usuable in a 1v1 since it is so easily evaded/countered, while being massivly OP if you are the second Fighter in a 2v1 Situation. In a 2v1 your Buddy just needs to Spam the Guardbreak while youdo this move, and it's Damage will quickly eat the opponents Health away, with very little they can do about it. Also what I am missing is that a Block wouldn't ruin the charge, like it does now. Before it was a nice little risky game, opening one up for a Guardbreak, but if you released it just a bit before the GB it would really punish the Enemy.
My Suggestion: Please bring back the old charged Heavy the new, is about as usuable (if a bit better due being unbockable) as the Old one in 1v1, but is really a Pain in 4v4.
SUPERIOR BLOCK
Here is the Nerf part i was talking about. Superior Block was Conquerors Main Defensive Ability, and right now it isn't really usuable. This Problem creeps up more in higher Tiers of Play where People Feint a lot and like to Feint into a Guardbreak. Going into Full Defense is also not rewarding since the Delay, means you can only do it BEFORE your oppenet Attacks which gives your opponent the Option: He can either recieve a Flail Uppercut by Attacking or he can go into an Uncounterable Guardbreak, and of course he can always cancle his Heavy, if he was doing one. You get only one guess what he is gonna do. This also is a great Nerf in a 1vx since Superior Block was invaluable in holding out against multiple Opponents.
My Suggestion: Bring back the old Superior Block with a small twist: It should break up combos like before, but on Blocking a Heavy Attack it should only grant a free LIght. As it was previously simply No One who fought Conquror used Heavys unless they were Unblockable. THis way he maintains his strong Defense, while avoiding that People get annoyed by the free GB on Heavy Block. Alternativly it doesn't even grant a Free Light on Heavy Block, but still breaks up Combos like before.
SHIELD UPPERCUT
To be honest this isn't really all that new, we could Feint before or go from our chagred Heavy suddenly into a Shieldbash. It's okay i guess, but this 800 MS seem so damn long, so this really is only usuable if the Opponent does a Side Dodge, in pretty much evey other Situation it is easily avoidable.
My Suggestion: Remove it. If you Rework the Conqueror Mostly back as he was before, he doesn't need this.
CHAINS
OH YES OMG THANK YOU! We can finally do some chains to put a bit of Pressure on the Opponent this is frigging GREAT, and something Conq needed! This really allows for some nice Chains. Of course they mostly wont work when the Opponent has Stamina, but when he is OOS the Chains can become really terrifying.
My suggestion: KEEP THIS! GREAT WORK GUYS.
LIGHT ATTACKS
This is why i said, were a Hybrid now, our Lights are just very very good. We don't even need to use our heavys anymore, and thanks to the Chains it gets very easy to just Light Spamm away. The increased Damage is something our Lights direly needed though. I really never thought i would see the Day where anyone would call Conqueror a Light Spammer. That being said his Lights are really nicely usuable now.
My Suggestion: To Prevent the Pesky Light Spamm, make Triple Light into a three Way Combo instead of being an Infinite Chain. Of course at Higher Skill Lvls Players can deal with Light Spam, but com on there are so many Assassin Light Spammers, we don't need a Heavy LIght Spammer as well!
FULL BLOCK STANCE
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO OUR FEINT TOOL? =(. Before you could do some very Crafty Feints and play some mean Mind Games with your Opponent, but thanks to the new Delay, and the increased Stamina Cost, we can barly Feint at all. Also as i talked about it before in the Superior Block Part, Full Block Stance isn't really usuable as i explained before, since it opens you up for an uncounterable Guardbreak, befor your Opponent even does anything. Every expierenced Player will simply go for a guranteed uncounterble Guardbreak. The only Time i can see this being useful, is for the Occaisonal Heavy Feint, or if you opponent is so much into Light Spamming that he doesn't really does much else.
My Suggestion: Please change it back to how it was before, we really like our own Stange and crafty Feint Game, now we can barely Feint anymore.
FLAIL UPPERCUT
Like i explained before in Full Block Stance and Superior Block, this Move is only usuable in the rarest of Situations agsint inexpierenced Players, because everyone else, will simply GB you out of that Fullblock stance, meaning you will almost never get to use this.
My Suggestion: Please Remove, this Move pretty much serves no Purpose
SHIELD BASH MIX UP
Our own forward Shiledbash is still easily dodged, so we should get that Heavy, if we do land it. I don't mind that you decreased the Stmina Bullying. Actually i am looking forward that you do that to other heroes as well.
My Suggestion: Keep the Decereased Stamina Bullying, but gives us back our guranteed Heavy PLZ.
SHIELD BASH
Well the changes here don't really Rock my Boat to be honest, because i don't really feel them ingame, but keep the anyway. (With the Exception of course of the Non guranteed Heavy which i kindly would like back, but i talked about that one bfore.)
My Suggestion: These were somewhat minor adjustments, i am still voting for not being a Stamina Bully so thats alright.
CHARGING SHIELD CRUSH
Okay, this thing rarely worked outside of 4v4 anyway. There was honestly now need to Nerf this, because People could Dodge it from a Mile away, since it's so telegraphed.
Why don't you want the Conqueror to use this in 1v1? It was barely usuable before, i really don't understand why you nerfed a move that didn't worked most of the Time anyway in a 1v1.
My Suggestion: Please give us the Old one back. I don't see a reason for this Nerf. This Attack only worked in 1v1 if the opponent either hunkerd down with all Guard, or if we suprised him by doing a literally Stupid move.
TOP HEAVY
Finally thank you, before there was NEVER a Reason for using the Top Heavy now we have one, and will use if we send or Opponent to the Ground for example.
My Suggestion: Great Work thanks!
ZONE ATTACK:
I think the chages to the Zone are very fair now someone can get past that Zone if he is very skilled at Parrying. This will especially Help Assasins without Ublockables like Peacekeeper, who simply need to sit outside and wait until we finished Zoning.
My Suggestion: Keep it, that was a Nerf, but a Fair change in my Opinion
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FAZIT: Conqueror isn't Heavy anymore, because most of our Defense is gone, and the few Defense Moves we have are really Ineffective. Sorry but we aren't a defender anymore. In exchange our OOS Punish, our Lights and our Group Punish skyrocketed. We are now a weird kind of Heavy/Assassin Hybrid, with a big meaty Health Bar, but we aren't the Fortress Gate we used to be. All in all the Changes did change Conquerors role on the Battlefield, we can now fill in everywhere but we aren't as good in the Defense as we used to be. I posted what i think about the Changes above, and i thank you for taking your time for Conqueror, but i would really like him to go back to become a Heavy again.
