Community Manager
Hello everyone,
With season 5 kicking off, we've added a number of changes to some of your favorite heroes! We'll be keeping an eye on both the gameplay and feedback around the community and we've set up this thread for you to share your thoughts on Conqueror. Please leave your feedback and comments below.
- Check here for full changes for Conqueror: Conqueror Changes
- If you’d like to leave feedback regarding the Kensei, you can find that thread here.
- If you’d like to leave feedback regarding the Berserker, you can find that thread here.
Thanks and see you on the battlegrounds!
Member
Overall the conq rework feels very nice and fluid bringing him up into the meta. Glad to see he finally has a use for full block although it still feels slow yet one of the more rewarding full blocks with options.
Lights: Fast and up to par with a lot of the other light attacks in the game.
Heavies: Still the same, charged heavy now has great use
Shield bash: Overall, great change but I feel the speed in which it activates leaves little time for anyone to react. Mix-up shield bashes are great and an awesome way to win a positioning battle or reset to neutral.
I hope to see some changes to the lawbringer to bring his slice of life up more.
Junior Member
Junior Member
Two problems with conqueror first is his unblock-able shieldbash not only give him a free light but leaves no opening after you dodge it, characters like Valkiry are fully opened after you dodge her shield bash and she doesn’t even get a free light from it.
Second I’m not sure if is a bug but it has happened 3 times while playing dominion on the Xbox, I tried to ledge conqueror and he just stopped at the edge no falling be aware we where fighting one step away fron the ledge.
Member
Rework was a good first step. The one hit pony is over.
I am missing 1 or 2 fixed combos like
Light(Hit),light(Hit),light(Hit), Full Block stance and getting an unblockable heavy
Or
Light, heavy, light, shieldbash and the Enemy goes to the ground
Something like that.
Other thing is his feats.
They are Not really helpful like others.
Feat 3: healing by blocking For example.
You have to block very often without getting hit by enemy.
Other heros just have to put 1 Button to get lot of energy back.
For the future it would be very cool if fighter has a lot of more Feats to choose.
Atm 3 For every feat step. Maybe 6 or 8 would be Nice.
Sry my english is really Bad. Hopefully u can understand what i have tried to say.
Member
I have to say this now before this gets overlooked. Majority of the community know me by now so I'm not just randomly ranting without making good points. Before I begin my full thoughts about season 5 I want to say there will be some people here that will either get mad or think I'm out of my mind. Trust me my words are full of wisdom. So how do I put this? Conquerors rework is great visually but on paper he just got competitively weaker. Here's why. So before patch we were able to go toe to toe with feint game to fight assassins using FB light against a high tie fight with like a glad. Now since the rework came out I do understand that this was taken away from us and for some schools of thought its for good reason. I can somewhat live with that but that created a problem for his new feint game that Conq has. Now this may not apply to every Conq but I will speak about high tier gameplay. Because our only feint is now heavy in general. Now correct me if I'm wrong it costs 20 Stam to go into FB. This is actually false until area can give me actual Stam values but for now I'm going to explain through my own testing. So now even with the best Stam reduction gear you have you can at best throw a max of around 4 heavies. It also costs Stam to cancel heavy then go into the FB so whatever the value of canceling the heavy is gets added to the FB Stam cost value. In practice you may start to either engage a fight with a light or heavy cancel into uppercut to get the light but I'll get to that later. So for now I wanna talk about feints only. So through testing there is a big delay to throw out consecutive heavys and in my opinion it's not as enticing to feint heavies anymore because in the middle of the chain combo if you feint the heavy to either FB UC or FB SU (Upper cut),(Shield Uppercut)there is room to get hit with a light if the opponent knows that there is a delay. So why would you use all that stamina just to get a delayed feint that is easily readable and put yourself at a Stam disadvantage? Honestly when I go into a light chain combo and go for a feint to either FB UC or SU I either get hit with a light or punished by the SU being so slow. Now if they would adjust the Stam cost of the feints and maybe speed of the SU it would help Conq with the feint game a bit. Now as far as I tested the light chain combo/heavy currently whiffs at point blank range on non guarded areas now I they reduced the tracking and range but at point blank range it should start to have a small amount of tracking because now currently people either walk back or dodge back right when light comes out. Now I don't know if you guys remember when warlords Rush was dodgeable just by walking backwards but that's how my attacks in general are feeling right now. Could be frames or lag but it's honestly getting annoying whiffing things I know Gould connect a kiss distance. I also feel that conqs deflects are super delayed as well so it leads me to believe that I have to preemptively guess the light and dodge hoping I get the deflect. Could be just me or the lag going on this weekend. Now I understand that they took away free heavy on Heavy SB unless you SB them into a wall but are main damage now due to the parry changes are gonna be lights in 1vs or heavies in mainly group fights. Now people are quickly getting used to this chain speed so now I honestly feel like throwing one light into heavy feint SU is the best bet unless I get lighted out of it then I'm back to just lighting threw the fight hoping I don't get parried. Now people are like just SB get the free light. Kinda don't wanna do that when someone is about to die or probably half way health because SB is a CC and gives them more revenge so that's not really something I would do now vs something I would before rework because I could cancel my light and follow up with many things. I want to address the elephant in the room real quick regarding Cent. Only character really that can still get a free heavy regardless of what kind of parry because of his kit and also noobushi can just back light bleed.ehh just gotta deal with it right now. I hope they speed of the feint to help go toe to toe with feint heavy characters for high tier gameplay,speed up the FB SU, fix the light tracking/heavy tracking a bit, and adjust the FB cost because at neutral I can go into FB like 4-5 still because of the delay and constant Stam depletion on going into it then holding it for that quick ms to then go into another. Yes it costs 20 but holding it for like a sec also uses Stam due to the delay going into another one. I hope devs consider to look into these things. In General I feel this rework is good because it's fresh but those technical areas need to be addressed to maintain competitive equality. I'll still keep Conq strong! RAH! To my brothers!
Member
Junior Member
So I am a conqueror main. Since the game came out, this has been my main character to use. I have been playing extensively and have been closely studying the new mechanics. I have tested the move sets with every single character in the roster to see its strengths and weaknesses.
So prior to the rework, conqueror had better usage of heavy attacks. Now since this re work everything he does is all light attack based. Before the re work conqueror had guaranteed heavies with the following:
Prior to Rework.
1. Charging Shield Crush (When tackling someone, you could land a heavy)
2. Heavy Shield Bash (This slower version of the push gave you a heavy attack)
3. Block after heavy attack (Guard break was guaranteed and a heavy was granted)
After Rework
1. So conqueror has two types of pushes. A slow push and a faster push. The Slower push is extremely punishable and the trade off is not worth it. If you do land the heavy push, you can only get a light attack after. So essentially there is no difference in using the slower push since you can get only a light attack from either types of push. My argument here is that, there is literally no point in the push other than to simply do the faster push, since it is faster and you get the same light attack anyways. The heavy push should guarantee a heavy attack since it is so god awfully slow. Also, when other players dash after you push, they get a guaranteed guard break and can get a free heavy. So the faster push should give you a free light attack while the heavy push should give you the free heavy attack. These moves are very easily dodged and is almost not worth even using, especially if the trade off is only a light attack.
2. Conqueror used to get a free heavy after tackling someone. Now you can barely squeeze out a light attack if you are lucky. Other characters can run and drag you into a wall that is miles away and once you hit the wall, they would get a free heavy. Other characters have a more reliable attack for enemies that are running away, and also keep in mind that conqueror is tremendously slow, so to even chase someone is barely even gonna happen, a light attack that does not work all the time is barely punishment when the faster characters could just get up and run away.
3. So for this one, I can kinda see how this was broken. However, the purpose of the re work was to make conqueror better and more versatile, but the re work instead actually made him less stronger, seeing as how conqueror was obviously one of the worser characters to use. The superior blocking was actually conquerors best feat. Now without it, characters with crazy light attack spams, and non stop striking stagger the conqueror and actually kind of make it harder to react since the animation of the staggering is happening. The blocking also gave a free guard break on heavy attacks, it was actually really nice. But I do see how this can be seen as "broken". But this furthers my point that conqueror was actually better prior to the rework.
Argument 2: So after the re work, there is virtually no use for the heavy attack. The new charged unblock-able heavy attack, is cool and all but honestly it is very ineffective. Anyone can see this coming from a mile away and the start up takes a bit so you can't just dish out the unblock-able right away like other characters who can dish out an unblock-able and easily cancel it immediately. So the second you charge that attack anyone can see it, and all it would take would be dashing back away, dashing to the sides and light attacking. The conqueror can cancel into the new shield uppercut but it is also easily dodged. Any fast character can easily just light attack on the sides, it honestly is a useless attack to use. The only time the charged unblock-able would be useful would be in ganking situations. In regular combat it is pretty inefficient. I would rather do a regular heavy and cancel into the shield uppercut, however even the shield uppercut is easily dodged with any character.
Argument 3. (Range) so before whenever you would land a fast push, you would get a guaranteed light attack. It has happened a lot where I push someone and my light attacks do not reach. This happened a bit before but it wasn't as bad. Now it happens very randomly and still happens, even when I am very close. It is very WEIRDD! and frustrating.
Argument 4. (Full Block Stance) this is by far one of the most frustrating things. I understand how the full block stance can be seen as too OP but to get a full easy guard break is a little excessive. I have been trying to utilize the new Flail Uppercut, and the startup time to use it is actually pretty slow, and you cannot go into full guard stance when being hit, so you literally have to use it early or time it when someone looks like they are about to attack you. Keep in mind that there is a delay time. You can't just go in and out of it as easy. With that being said, every character has loads of moves that are unblockable and that can open up players who are "turtl-ing". I have gotten pretty good at trying to use the uppercut flail, but players now whenever they immediately see the full guard stance, they just have to mash that guard break and boom, there goes a free heavy attack. The damage ends up being excessive and it is very annoying since this move has a startup time. So lets say that this was removed, then the conqueror would break free from the guard break, but because the full guard stance has a delay time, one would not be able to turtle back up immediately, so then one could hit back with a light attack and be able to stop a conqueror from going back into full guard stance. And of course there are characters that have TONS of unblockable spam features so full guard stance shouldn't be a problem....cough cough....Kensi, Berserker, Gladiator, Aramusha, Shigoki, and Shaman.
Argument 5. (Light Attacks) So I am really happy that conqueror can actually finally use his light attacks. However everything he does is ALL LIGHT ATTACK based now. And this makes me very sad. Heavy attacks are not even used anymore since there is no guarantee from them anymore. Also, there is this weird delay when you press the button before the light attack actually comes out. Yes, the attacks do come out a bit faster but the entire fight consists of conq only using light attacks and my god it takes forever to kill someone. Honestly it was easier before the rework since you got to actually use the heavies.
Argument 6. CANCELLING ATTACKS!!! I loved being able to cancel everything using full guard stance. There was so much variety before the re work and you were able to cancel a heavy attack and go for a heavy push. It was amazing! And it was risky but if it worked you got a heavy in. Now you can only cancel a heavy into the shield uppercut and only get a light while draining your stamina. You can cancel a heavy attack into full guard stance and only do a guard break and it sucks so bad. It is kinda slow and it NEVER catches anyone. The cancelling sucks really bad. Now the Conq has to really depend on "Heavy Attack, cancel into Shield Uppercut and light attack". That is literally the extent to the versatility. You can heavy shield bash mix up but it is soooo slow! Everyone dodges it and or gets a guard break for a free heavy. It is also not worth the risk to go for a push because you would only get a light attack off of it. The risk is too great for a small reward. ALSO: the fast push was slowed down a little but and does not drain the enemies stamina as it used to, which again, also kinda sucks as other characters have a massive stamina drain. The cancel into shield uppercut is great but it takes so much just to get a light attack in. Once people learn of this strategy, they just need to dodge or light attack you on the spot, since Conq's heavy attack takes forever and know that you are always gonna cancel. The move is just too punishable and you spend the entire fight as Conqueror just light attacking and the puny damage is just not worth it.
Prior to the re work, Conqueror was able to cancel both lights and heavies and the possibility were endless. (Cancelling was done by Full Guard Stance) You could light attack, cancel into other light attack. Or Light attack, cancel into heavy. You could also do, Heavy, cancel, light attack, Heavy, cancel, heavy push. The mix ups were GLORIOUS!!! You could also heavy attack, cancel and guard break, (Keep in mind, that the light attacks were VERY SLOW) so it would get punished often but the mix ups actually allowed for confusing the opponent with high risk and high reward. So lets look at this scenario: I would heavy attack, go into full block to cancel and then heavy push and it would guarantee a free heavy. But, remember, this is VERY easily dodged. The opponent would dodge, and could either get a free guard break or light attack. The risk was balanced, now the most I would get would be a free light attack while the other opponent could get a free guard break heavy after dodging, the trade off just isn't fair. I am deeply saddened that this mechanic was removed all together.The mix ups are actually more limited and have High Risk, little reward. I loved old conqueror, he just needed minor adjustments but instead he got relatively worse since everything is just light attacks, considering his speed.
Now for the GOOD parts of the Re work.
1. So I love the Flail Uppercut and the Shield Uppercut. They are both AWESOME! I just wish these were added on top of the old Conqueror mechanics without the superior blocking, because I DO understand how that can be broken and over powered. The mix ups are less and the entire fight is dependent on light attacks and getting lucky if you land the flail uppercut before someone guard breaks you to death or dodges the pushes and gets a guard break. AND there is a startup up time for full block stance so the Flail Uppercut requires timing.
My suggestions overall:
1.Fix the pushes, since there are two different speeds with the same result.So it should be more like: Fast Push = Light attack, Heavy Push= Heavy attack
2.Remove free guard block on Full Guard Stance, since there is now startup and exit time on the full guard stance.
3. Bring back cancelling with Full Guard Stance, for both heavy attacks, and possibly light attacks like before the re work. (If cancelling light attacks are too OP, then it is understandable) and lastly, keep the shield uppercut. Or it could be a trade off, If we can cancel light attacks, remove the shield uppercut, or if we can't cancel light attacks, then keep the shield uppercut. That way it is balanced.
4. Be able to do a heavy push while in Full Guard Stance so that we can do a heavy attack, cancel into full guard stance and then heavy push. (More Mix Up but also punishable by simply dodging, since it IS a slow push.
5. Heavy Attacks! - Crushing Shield Crush, or tackling should give you the heavy since many run away and a light attack is barely punishment. Especially since fast characters can easily run away from Conq. It is also the easiest attack to dodge. Heavies should have more use like with the old mechanics before the re work. Other characters get an unblockable after landing two light attacks or after landing just one, maybe something similar for Conqueror since the charged flail is barely effective. The charge makes it hard to just dish out like other characters. So maybe remove it and add an R1 R1, unblockable instead. So like other characters just make it a combo unblockable. Light attack, light attack, unblockable or light attack unblockable. Similar to what Kensi can do or Berserker.
Aside from everything. Thank you Game Devs for the hard work! It makes me happy to see you guys care about the community and actually try to make the game better. I really appreciate it. I LOVE THIS GAME!!! I can't wait to see what will be in store for us next. I hope these suggestions are worth considering, even if non make it to the game.
- Yours Truly, a Conqueror main and a For Honor fan.
Junior Member
Junior Member
