Season 5 - Berserker Feedback & Discussion | Forums

[FredEx919]

Hello everyone,

With season 5 kicking off, we've added a number of changes to some of your favorite heroes! We'll be keeping an eye on both the gameplay and feedback around the community and we've set up this thread for you to share your thoughts on Berserker. Please leave your feedback and comments below.

• Check here for full changes for Berserker: Berserker Changes
• If you’d like to leave feedback regarding the Kensei, you can find that thread here.
• If you’d like to leave feedback regarding the Conqueror, you can find that thread here.

Thanks and see you on the battlegrounds!

[Echoesong]

I'd like to pre-empt a lot of comments, as I think the general sentiment in this community is that the changes didn't do enough for him.

This sentiment is incorrect.

In the competitive community, this buff is widely regarded as placing Zerk in the top tier of play, with Skorbrand placing him on the S tier along with PK, Conq, and Glad. He has the biggest heavy parry in the game with the parry changes rolled out, a buffed feint game, and finally a way to open up turtles.

The importance of the new unblockables cannot be overstated. As is well known, Zerk's biggest problem pre-rework was his inability to break through players who would simply block. Now Zerk has access to his top heavy unblockable after a single blocked heavy, which forces a reaction out of the opponent. The unblockable essnetially lets Zerk actually play the way he is meant to instead of being shut down by blocking. While I don't think the Bear Mauler unblockable will see much use, I can see it being passable in some group scenarioes.

On the whole, I see the changes to the more minor aspects of his kit (Slash Rush stamina cost/loss of execute, top heavy damage decrease, etc) to be completely eclipsed by the buffs to his weakest areas. This rework gets right to the heart of what it is to play Zerk, and it has been done very well.

[b1gb4d0rc]

Just want to say something very fast and easy:

You cannot give any character a move that is Unblockable, Uninterrumpible, AND feintable... I mean c'mon! it is worse than a 50/50, you're creating the.... 33/66¿? You're transforming a game of ability into a game of chance...

Also, unblockables in a chain when you just increased chip damage is a bit over the top... but this is not that bad, as long as chip damage is not excessive...

[b1gb4d0rc]

Just want to say something very fast and easy:

You cannot give any character a move that is Unblockable, Uninterrumpible, AND feintable... I mean c'mon! it is worse than a 50/50, you're creating the.... 33/66¿? You're transforming a game of ability into a game of chance...

Also, unblockables in a chain when you just increased chip damage is a bit over the top... but this is not that bad, as long as chip damage is not excessive...

Let me explain:

Uninterrumpible/Feintable? :
- Trade is a bad idea because he keeps the inertia and Zerk gets a 2 combo (most likely) vs 1 hit.
- Block is an option but the Zerk still has the advantage of the inertia of the combo
- Wait for the feint - where Zerk has 2 options (GB or attack from another side) and still has a 50/50 advantage or more if we consider the two remaining guards he could hit. If Zerk does not feint, you still block, but Zerk continues the attack.
- Parry gives you a light.
-Side Step gives advantage to Zerk because of the combo inertia,. Zerk can throw a light to avoid GB or GB/CGB

Possible outcomes here are pretty balanced for both characters.


Unblockable/ Uninterrumpible - You have to go for a parry or a side step or trade:
- Trade is not good, because he can follow the combo and you're screwed.
- Side step avoids damage but he will have the inertia of the combo, so faster lights (the zerk player knows he has to throw a light to continue with the combo and avoid GB), so he does that and he gets the advantage unless you match the guard.
- Parry, you get the advantage now but it is only a light punish

Outcomes here are also pretty balanced

Unblockable/Feintable - Here we have a problem - you need to either parry or side step:
- If you parry and Zerk feints, Zerk gets a GB.
- If you side step and Zerk feints, Zerk gets a GB
- If you do nothing wait for the feint and Zerk does not feint you get hit pretty bad
- If you do nothing wait for the feint, you either can CGB and end chain or maybe match the guard and end chain as the two best possible outcomes...
- You can throw a light, you can get a light... fair

This combination is a bit too much of advantage for the Zerk (as it has always been for Kensei)

Now, if you add the three options Unblockable, Uninterrumpible, and Feintable, the problem gets even worse:
- Parry: you can get a light, but Zerk can get a heavy if he feints into a GB.
- Side step: Zerk can light attack or GB. You can only match the guard and interrupt combo (if you happen to have the guard in the same direction that Zerk throws the attack) but GB grants a heavy to Zerk
- Blocking is not an option
- Light attack is not an option because you get a heavy in return and Zerk keeps the inertia of the attack

Trying to counter the move as it is now is a game of chances, and the options to win are very slim...

(hope this is understandable, it is pretty clear in my head )

[Mr_AwfuL]

I'd like to mention that alot of good points as to why this is a negative change to berserker were posted over here, here and here

I don't have much time so i'll go over some highlights.

1) extremely stamina intensive, you're basically fighting against yourself, feinting yourself into the ground, good players know how to block those pesky little feint-lights and leave you low on stamina.

2) trading potential. the trading potential is now against us, we'll take even or more damage while trading for less, most players can eat through our unblockables and weak damage output.

3) 2nd and 3rd heavy are useless. This is not beta people, nobody falls for these.

4) top heavy is useless. it's easily dodged out of/parried or eaten, nobody is scared of this move anymore, it's weak as all hell now, laughable even, if increased a bit to 40-45 it can be made good again, feinting it is the only option but players expect that and dodge out of or counter it.

All in all berserker is much tryharder to play and less rewarding, This was undoubtedly a nerf, he is weaker in damage and easily shutdown by decent players.

[S0Mi_xD]

Overall Feedback on the Changes:
Taking everything in account we have a overall improvement on Berserker:
From low to average gameplay - around 40% improvement
From above average to top player - around 5% improvement

His mix-up game got a good boost, his focus is now even more on feinting.
Therefor he lost much of his major DMG (Top heavy, OOS punish), but he also got some additional dmg for his chained attacks and so on - so overall he doesn't lost to much.
The unblockables are good againt lower skilled people - but if you start fighting good players, it is mostly feinted, that means it is still only a parry bait and opening up good "turtles" isn't easier then befor.
About Bear Mauler chain - it takes to long to take advantage of the 3rd attack.
The hyperarmor after feinting is great and needed.
Dodge cancel on lights and chained heavies, is a small loss but it still did hold a certein balance to berserkers stamina and feint game.
Slashing Rush costs way to much stamina - it is basically a dead move now.
Since his main focus is now even more on feints, it is even harder then befor to keep the stamina management good.
All other small changes like hyperarmor on head slicer, parry properties on zone etc. where needed tweaks.

All in one those changes are good, and therefor i thank you guys.
But there are still problems which where already present befor and other problems came with the new changes.

Top heavy chain finisher:
DMG is reduced to 30dmg - that means trading now (as an assassin) with this move isn't profitable at all.
But this move got not much back to balance this loss out - it is still very slow and has a huge recovery (when you hit an enemy with it - a missed one can be skiped with a dodge) all those negative traits where justified with the huge dmg you got from it.
It is unblockable but it is very easy to parry and very easy to dodge away from it.

Bear Mauler:
Like i already said it takes to long to make real use of it.
The feint window on the Bear maul finisher is weird.
Basically it is a stone old chain that was meant for a For Honor long time ago - and it needs some adjustments as well, if you want people to use it for the finisher.

Slashing Rush:
Like already mentioned - this stamina consumption is just to high, slashing rush isn't compareable in use with the zone attack - it is an entirely diffent Move and you can't just put up the stamina cost on the same lvl like on the zone and say "we want it to be like the zone", without to compensate those HUGE stamina costs.
The use of Slashing rush is to retreat - but with those Stamina cost it only brings you more in danger and ruins Berserkers game flow.

Suggestions for Improvments: (needed ones and optional)
Top heavy chain finisher:
Increasing the speed to 800ms, and reduce the recovery on a connected top heavy a bit and DMG to 35.
This would set The top heavy in a better postion in a trading situaiton, abit more dmg, slightly faster execution and recovery.

Bear Mauler:
Holding a side heavy after a feint skips the first chain of bear mauler and starts with the second chain.
You will still consum the stamina on the first heavy which you are skipping.
This would make Bear Maulers finisher much easier to access but would cost still the same amount of stamina.

Slashing Rush and Stamina:
1. Keep those 65 Stamina cost for slashing rush

2. Split Stamina cost into 3 Parts:
- First Swing = 25 Stamina
- Second Swing = 20 Stamina
- Third Swing = 20 Stamina

3. Dodge Cancel
- you can cancel Slashing Rush after the first and second swing with a dodge
That means there are 2 time windows to actually dodge cancel Slashing rush - between the first and second - and the second and third)

4. Stamina Regen
- if you successfull perform the full Slashing Rush animation (after the third swing) you get a Stamina regen boost.
- it lasts 10 seconds and regens 100 stamina (10 stamina each second)
- it stops to regen if you get hit, parried or you reach max. stamina
- it will still regen if you attack (thats how you make full use of the 100 stamina)
- it stacks with your normal stamina regen (that means if you do nothing that consums stamina you will regen your stamina with normal regen + the Stamina boost from slashing rush)
- the stamina boost itself does not stack or refreshes (that means while the stamina boost is active it won't be cast again)

Those changes would balance out the high stamina consumption, give berserker a great mix up tool and balance his overall stamina management.
Splitting the stamina cost apart and making Slashing rush cancelable with a dodge gives much more control on the Slashing rush animation and the Slashing rush Stamina use.
You could decide to stop after the first or second swing to only consume 25 or 45 stamina and get out of the animation earlier with a backwards dodge or maybe into a dodge attack.
Or maybe to consum the full 65 stamina but therefor to get the stamina boost and refresh your stamina or to use this boost to go on offense.
Overall it would give Berserker much more potential in his mix up game and also give him some options out of slashing rush.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those Changes to Top heavy, Bear Mauler and Slashing Rush would be enough to set Berserker in a good place.

An optional change for the Future maybe:

Melee Attack - Sucker Punch
Removing top heavy unblockable but adding an unblockable punch.
This punch is only useable in the Dance of the Paired Blades.
It only deals stamina dmg and wouldn't allow any free dmg.
Speed 500-600 ms depending on the chain order. After a heavy it is 500ms, after a light it is 600ms
A sucker punch can't be chained after a sucker punch.
It would knock down OOS enemies, but the knock down will only give the next attack as a free hit.
Means a light if it is a heavy punch, a heavy if it is a light punch and to get much punish ending the chain with a top heavy.

[midnight2187]

what y'all need to do is fix that cheap *** glitch with the warden's charge, i don't understand how in tf can he guard break you in the middle of his shoulder charge do y'all not know how many people complain about that one cheap *** move that people do 24 7?

I sware ubisoft for me to be a big huge fan of y'all from day one this game is a total let down seriously, im considering on not buying another game from y'all for the rest of my life because this is rsad on how this game is, y;all made an update which is great but damn seriously?

[S0Mi_xD]

what y'all need to do is fix that cheap *** glitch with the warden's charge, i don't understand how in tf can he guard break you in the middle of his shoulder charge do y'all not know how many people complain about that one cheap *** move that people do 24 7?

I sware ubisoft for me to be a big huge fan of y'all from day one this game is a total let down seriously, im considering on not buying another game from y'all for the rest of my life because this is rsad on how this game is, y;all made an update which is great but damn seriously?

This is the wrong thread to complain about this - go into general discussion and open up a thread or comment under a related topic.

[midnight2187]

and a couple of other things as well the highlander y'all need to down grade his power because ever since that update all what people do is his spam his unblockables, the cent y'all need to power his attacks down a little bit because everybody does that knock down charged punch just to impale you on the ground like man this **** is crazy!!!!

[N0tMatthias]

I'd like to mention that alot of good points as to why this is a negative change to berserker were posted over here, here and here

I don't have much time so i'll go over some highlights.

1) extremely stamina intensive, you're basically fighting against yourself, feinting yourself into the ground, good players know how to block those pesky little feint-lights and leave you low on stamina.

2) trading potential. the trading potential is now against us, we'll take even or more damage while trading for less, most players can eat through our unblockables and weak damage output.

3) 2nd and 3rd heavy are useless. This is not beta people, nobody falls for these.

4) top heavy is useless. it's easily dodged out of/parried or eaten, nobody is scared of this move anymore, it's weak as all hell now, laughable even, if increased a bit to 40-45 it can be made good again, feinting it is the only option but players expect that and dodge out of or counter it.

All in all berserker is much tryharder to play and less rewarding, This was undoubtedly a nerf, he is weaker in damage and easily shutdown by decent players.

i would agree with 1,3 and 4. Not sure about 2 yet since the superamor is really good with keeping up the pace