For Honor - The Visual Impact of Players, and the Hidden Role of Bots | Forums

[bob333e]

Little talk has circulated around this particular matter, which I feel plays a distinct role in how we, as fighters in For Honor, perform in combat.

You might have met a player picking a hero who was at rep1 and not very intimidating, little customization applied, not knowing the entirety of the moveset; and you might have met a player with the same hero at rep34, whose appearance was a whole other matter and he knew exactly what to go for.

The rep1 dude gave the impression of an easy task, and felt rather within your sphere of comfort of what did not transcend your own measurement of 'visual dominance'. Your hero looked better than his, and you know more tricks than he did. You'd feel okay for missing windows as long as you stayed alive and won the round.

The rep34 dude, by contrast, had this same hero fully customized, with a gritty and dark choice of colors, patterns, and symbols. A laughing skull engulfed in blue flames glaring through his helm, heartily chucking at your meager attempts at fighting back. Taunting you with evil grins, knowing he won't miss a block, parry, or dodge. And in the blink of an eye, took your health down to half. Stays in your face, fully confident of his abilities, waits for the slightest mistake to deliver one colossal punish. He looked, and felt, menacing. He had crossed the border of what you drew as 'visual dominance' and made you actually question your own skillset during the fight. You became iffy about landing those parries, overly expecting attacks, parrying too early, missing most of your windows. Feeling dumb for making mistakes which you've spotted and felt clear as day, yet stood there helpless as you tried, again and again, to counter him despite the uneven odds.

You walk back to your training room, wondering how to train against exercised visual dominance.

What do the bots, the level 3 bots in particular, offer us in this instance? they only stick to the combat side of things; they look absolutely crappy, mismatching tastes in gear pieces and symbols and patterns, they just look funny overall; they do not leave a visual impact on the player. Outside combat, they mean nothing to us. They're mannequins with inhuman reaction time and that's it.

You may train well combat-wise against bots; however, what impression did these bots leave behind? they're like punching machines; wonky-looking robots that will throw punch after punch and you time your dodges and counters. Walk outside of the training room, and there was no clear image left in your head, of not what, but who, you've just faced and trained against.

However, had we been given the full freedom, responsibility, and flexibility to transcend our training experience into the visual communication field, we wouldn't discern between a menacing rep34 player, and a level 3 bot with the same exact customization applied.

This proposal applies to Custom Match vs AI, and it enlivens and renews the purpose of Custom Match, giving it an actual meaning, outside the PvP and Story Mode. The place where we can mirror our digital realities inside the world of For Honor, face our worst fears, face head-to-head with what taunts, intimidates, or visually decimates each and every one of us.

Upon selecting Custom Match vs AI, and then selecting a hero for the AI, we may fully customize the AI hero the way we see fit; not only to mirror a specific encounter which left a mental imprint after a hard defeat, but also to creatively match pieces of gear, patterns, colors, symbols, ornaments, effects, emotes, and executions.

We customize the AI's hero with anything we want before the match. The AI has everything unlocked, and has 60/60 inventory, all the gear pieces available. All the effects, executions, emotes and outfits are unlocked. We may replicate a specific encounter we had in PvP, or we may experiment with mixtures to plan ahead which items to unlock/buy next for our own heroes.

Furthermore, we may rename the bot anything we want. We may replicate the name of a certain random cheapo we met in PvP, or we may invent something for our own leisure.

All customizations and name changes are reset upon exiting Custom Match.

This may only apply in Custom Match vs AI, and only on level 3 bots. This may not apply if we have someone else invited into Custom Match in the same lobby.

On top of combative training, we simulate, and re-emulate, visual communication that shoots the training onto a whole new level, allowing us to not only get our timings down, but also overcome our doubts and feelings of nervousness when facing a particular build.

Side note: this may also be considered for the Arena Mode which is to come out soon this season. On top of complete flexibility in bot customization to replicate a certain setting and encounter, we may instruct this bot to replicate specific moves and maneuvers.

What do you think? do you believe this shoots the concept of training and methodical practice onto a new level?

[bmason1000]

Before considering that kind of option, I'd consider whether or not anyone else even notices an enemies cosmetics and whether or not that has any effect on a player at all. "Exercised visual dominance" sounds completely ridiculous to me, personally. If seeing spikey armor and effects gets in your head, i don't know what to tell you.

Who knows though, maybe I'm the minority.

Edit: i respect you fady and i don't want to sound rude or like I'm attacking you or anything, the "visual dominance" thing just feels really silly to me and i don't know how to say that politely. I'm sorry.

[Titanodragon]

I think it's more of the character has better gear not a better look. When you see that armor you don't freeze but in your mind you think okay this player has a higher understanding of the game (not always the case).

[bob333e]

Before considering that kind of option, I'd consider whether or not anyone else even notices an enemies cosmetics and whether or not that has any effect on a player at all. "Exercised visual dominance" sounds completely ridiculous to me, personally. If seeing spikey armor and effects gets in your head, i don't know what to tell you.

Who knows though, maybe I'm the minority.

Oh don't mind me. Not every thread I put out is an extensively studied case. This one was more of a brain fart.

Still, I think you missed the original point by an inch. It's not that it gets in my head; it's that I'd love to have human-like level 3 bots whom I can customize the way I see fit. Reduce the automaton feel of the bots, and make it like you're actually facing people. The customization may be directly referenced from people you met online. That's what I was aiming at.

The 'visual dominance' part is a philosophical brain fart, mostly.

But, an input is an input nonetheless. That is the purpose of asking for thoughts. Regardless of how it was worded. So, thank you for that.

I think it's more of the character has better gear not a better look. When you see that armor you don't freeze but in your mind you think okay this player has a higher understanding of the game (not always the case).

You mean higher tiers? in Duels, they still count as purely aesthetic, so counts as appearance/looks. But either way, my point was, 'humanizing' bots tends to be a smoother learning curve and much better training than what we have now. It reduces the monotony of things.

[EvoX.]

I like this idea. Level 3 Aramusha with that Soul Eater effect? Yes, please.

[bob333e]

I like this idea. Level 3 Aramusha with that Soul Eater effect? Yes, please.

It gets to you huh? can't handle a bot that will taunt you with active effects... you know why? because it's all too similar to a human player using Aramusha. Yes, it's scary. But that's how bots should be. They should visualize a real scenario. Not be simple punching bags.

Guess I'm in the minority for wanting level 3 bots improved. Or even wanting level 4 bots.

[Alustar.exe]

Perceived mastery through visual queues is very much a thing.

From the very first game made, the more intricate and deadly looking an opponent, the more they mentally toy with your mind. This is an aspect of most PvP games, and the reason I chose the gear I do.

[EvoX.]

It gets to you huh? can't handle a bot that will taunt you with active effects... you know why? because it's all too similar to a human player using Aramusha. Yes, it's scary. But that's how bots should be. They should visualize a real scenario. Not be simple punching bags.

Guess I'm in the minority for wanting level 3 bots improved. Or even wanting level 4 bots.

But I was agreeing with you...

[bmason1000]

I think it's more of the character has better gear not a better look. When you see that armor you don't freeze but in your mind you think okay this player has a higher understanding of the game (not always the case).

Perceived mastery through visual queues is very much a thing.

Damn, i guess i am the minoity haha. I don't think that at all. It's probably because my rep 40 has default visuals, no ornament, no effects, so i don't associate fancy gear items with experience?

Also, i totally understand the point fady is making now. It's not about intimidation per se, but humanizing the bots so it feels more "real?" Because i definitely respond to bot practice differently you're right about that. I see where you're goin.

[bob333e]

Perceived mastery through visual queues is very much a thing.

From the very first game made, the more intricate and deadly looking an opponent, the more they mentally toy with your mind. This is an aspect of most PvP games, and the reason I chose the gear I do.

Thank you. This was a beautiful summarizing without all the philosophical take, as I was bored when I wrote that text so I threw some extra philolz in there.

Having bots mimic the exact nature of human experience, by having us, humans, customize the bots the way we see fit, would definitely enrich the training experience to a whole new level.

But I was agreeing with you...

Oh? ah... I took that for passive-aggressive sarcasm. You see, I'm aware how notorious the level 3 Aramusha bot is; referencing that particular bot didn't help your statement. But, thank you. Apologies I misunderstood.

Damn, i guess i am the minoity haha. I don't think that at all. It's probably because my rep 40 has default visuals, no ornament, no effects, so i don't associate fancy gear items with experience?

Also, i totally understand the point fady is making now. It's not about intimidation per se, but humanizing the bots so it feels more "real?" Because i definitely respond to bot practice differently you're right about that. I see where you're goin.

Hehe, yes. We both belong to two different minorities.... #MinorityLivesMatter

Yeah, your second sentence is more on point. Now ya got it.