Lawbringer has a small problem | Forums

[usmc1643]

After extensive experience with Lawbringer, i love him to bits but through all his strengths i noticed one glaring issue with him. He has way too many attacks that guarantee your opponent a guard break if they dodge it. Not to mention the Long Arm, the loveable meme that it is, is useless. Its telegraphed as hell and guarantees a free guard break if dodged. Would it be too much to ask that Lawbringer no longer be able to be guard broken so easily? With the coming parry changes, i look forward to not having to turtle anymore but Lawbringer is so easily guard broken regardless. Dodge his shove? Free gb. Dodge his top heavy? Free gb. Dodge his long arm? Free gb. Dodge his shove into light? Free gb. Im not saying buff him into S tier. Hes already really solid but its incredibly frustrating to be constantly guard broken for free. Maybe just fix one or two of these instances. A guard break can change the tide of a fight entirely *cough cough Shaman cough cough*

[teddy0teddy]

I think Lawbringer is miles behind in the queue to get some love in terms of being guardbroken. Valkyrie can’t do anything without the risk of someone dodging and then guardbreaking her so Lawdaddy can go join grandma in the back of the queue.

[DireNazgul]

I agree 100%, his attacks should be faster, and he should be given more unblock able move sets. That way, the only chance the enemy has is to parry. I do pretty well with the Lawbringer, but some encounters definitely show how he is very vulnerable to parrys and guard deflects. Also, Try a build where you do max defense penetration and block damage.

[CF_Pyre]

Lawbringer has bigger issues than that. He is the definition of the turtle META. He gets a free light after every shove, which he gets for free after every block. I don't know why you'd be shoving as an opener and long arm may as well be taken out seeing how useless it is - or if only certain characters had equally telegraphed moves * cough cough Shaman cough cough*

[KnightRider_69]

He gets a free light after every shove

Wrong. The light is dodgeable even after shove, and punishable.

[bob333e]

Block-shove has no place in this game. It's essentially a free reward for simply blocking an attack. For such rewards he gets for just blocking attacks, it's perfectly fair that he can be GBed out of several things.

A lot of times, turtling LBs will alter between block-shove into GB and block-shove into light. The only instance where both can be negated is a dodge attack, which only assassins and Kensei can do. Even then, a smart turtling LB can block-shove then feint a heavy, to parry the dodge attack. It's a lot of 50/50s just for blocking one attack from the opponent.

Turtling LBs drag out the fights way longer than they deserve. Especially against heroes who have no unblockable bashes from neutral to force a reaction. Also, I recall that Long Arm is guaranteed on light parry. Which means at least two heavies, a stamina drain, and another shove. And in 4v4s, it's free damage for teammates, when the opponent is on the ground.

Add to all that, he can stun with three different moves. The parry counter, the overhead heavy, and the heavy unblockable punisher on parry.

Top if off with playing Bomberman in 4v4s. Being the most cancerous thing, when it comes to feats.

Also, his hyperarmored shove is hyperarmored for a reason. It allows to interrupt the opponent and land a light and chain it from there. It's logical that it is punishable with a GB upon dodging it. Being hyperarmored + unpunishable with GB will easily render this move completely broken and 100% abusable.

Long Arm isn't hyperarmored, but it nets a lot of damage when it lands, both in 1v1s and 4v4s. It's just as logical to be punished with GB upon dodging it.

LB doesn't need any buffs; he straight-up needs a complete overhaul, to not be centered around the block-shove. And his feats replaced. Any slight positive change to his current kit (that is, negating GB punishes, as you suggested) without a rework/overhaul will shoot him straight up to S-Tier.

We don't need more broken things in this game. The DLC heroes are enough. The OG cast needs to be brought up to par, but also needs to be completely reworked. Unfortunately though, the current state of the reworks isn't looking very promising. Berserker feels more like nerfed compared to the pre-rework version, and Conqueror will become the new bashfest cancer. Kensei was the one real rework.

I guess it's the karma of things. No new S5 heroes, so they'll "cancerize" the OG cast. I think when LB's turn will come, he'll be given 400ms lights and 3 new unblockables. And more hyperarmor.

[KnightRider_69]

Block-shove has no place in this game. It's essentially a free reward for simply blocking an attack. For such rewards he gets for just blocking attacks, it's perfectly fair that he can be GBed out of several things.

A lot of times, turtling LBs will alter between block-shove into GB and block-shove into light. The only instance where both can be negated is a dodge attack, which only assassins and Kensei can do. Even then, a smart turtling LB can block-shove then feint a heavy, to parry the dodge attack. It's a lot of 50/50s just for blocking one attack from the opponent.

He is a counter-attacker, block shove plays into that. It doesn't mean that he's good at counter-attacking, just that he's terrible at openers.

As for the shove->attack mixup, that's easy to get out of without taking damage. Easily avoidable, escapable and punishable, unlike Warden's Vortex or even Warlord/Conq's bash->free damage. If anything, LB's shove just piles onto opponents revenge meter.

[bob333e]

As for the shove->attack mixup, that's easy to get out of without taking damage. Easily avoidable, escapable and punishable, unlike Warden's Vortex or even Warlord/Conq's bash->free damage. If anything, LB's shove just piles onto opponents revenge meter.

Warden's shoulderbash vortex nets 2 side lights which still deal inferior damage compared to LB landing block-shove > light, block-shove > GB > heavy > shove > light. If Warden wants to match that damage output, he'll have to cancel into GB and either go for side heavy or wallsplat into top heavy. Which is no longer a vortex. Even then, Warden has to land a top light first, or dash first, to initiate the vortex. In both cases, the shoulderbash can be dodged. (We're talking about the vortex, not the 50/50 cancel into GB). Whereas all LB has to do is block one attack.

Block-shove > light is easy to dodge, provided the LB doesn't switch to block-shove > GB. By then it becomes a 50/50 guessing game. Only negated by dodge attacks, and even then, LB can adapt and block-shove > feint heavy then go for a parry. Warden's SB cancel into GB is fully negated by dodge attacks. Also by Orochi's Riptide Strike and Nobushi's Hidden Stance. And Highlander/Zerker/Warlord when you time the hyperarmor well. Also, Warden is interruptible during his shoulderbash before he cancels into GB. Any light attack that got initiated during his shoulderbash cancel, will override the GB attempt and he'll eat the light attack.

Warlord's headbutt > light is one tiny poke. It nowhere compares to what LB can do.

Pre-rework Conq could land one light, but post-rework Conq is a problem. He's the new bashfest cancer and he'll be worse than release Centurion at keeping you OOS, when you become OOS.

I agree LB doesn't excel at counter-attacking, it's mostly because of his block-shove. His parry counter and his heavy unblockable finisher are nice, but that's only on parries. He can do a side charged heavy for mixups, but outside OOS situations it's barely used.

I hope they visit LB in the next batch of reworks, alongside Warden and Valkyrie. Also Shugoki. These four need some love asap. Warlord can wait, he's fine as-is.

Also, I mostly duel. No revenge in there. LB can turtle for days and just camp in front of you waiting for an attack. I don't blame the players using LB this way; I blame how LB was designed overall. All centered on the block-shove.