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  1. #21
    Sharpandpointy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CJ Fresh Go to original post
    I'm definitely not asking for any nerfs outside of the striker shotgun stacking. I wouldn't even mind that if every set was viable. But it's not. In PVE everything is cool except the skillpower based sets.
    Wait wat?

    Skillpower sets aren't viable in PvE?

    Are we talking their Classified bonuses, or the sets in general? Because in general, Tacticians is walking murder in PvE.

    If we're talking Classified bonuses, okay, sure, Tacticians got hosed.
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  2. #22
    CJ Fresh's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by nairda2k9 Go to original post
    You make a very valid point, but in all honesty this is exactly what is wrong with Pred and Striker as well. The bleed damage you get from Pred for stacking into stamina is every bit as powerful if not more with essentially the same toughness as a Nomad build specced in 8-9K FA with 400K toughness.

    The same with Striker with stacks making up the DPS allowing the user to stack into Stamina and get 500-600K toughness.

    Investing into FA gives DPS, investing into Stamina gives toughness and investing into Electronics gives skillpower. This has been a basic concept all through the game and Patch 1.8 changed that.

    Whilst I agree that other sets need buffing, the REAL issue here is that the three sets on top are the three that allow players to have BOTH DPS and Toughness. None of the others can compete because any attempt to put out the same DPS will leave the user with too little toughness to face trade.

    Giving sets the ability to have both DPS AND Stamina is where the developers went wrong. Buffing the other sets will not work unless you start awarding Tactician skillpower for investing into Stamina, or as you said awarding Hunter's Faith all that DPS for awarding into Stamina. As you pointed out people would go mad if the developers did that but this is exactly what they have done with Nomad, Striker AND Predator.
    Pred should be reversed, stack into firearms for the bleed and that scales depending on the 3k firearms tiers just like my nomad idea. But to outright nerf Pred would be terrible.Striker is in a precarious situation because no matter what you can always get high dps no matter how you spec it. I don't think people would mind striker if it wasn't for the shotgun stacks. It's already easy to get striker stacks as it is, using a shotgun makes it idiot-proof.
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  3. #23
    Sharpandpointy's Avatar Senior Member
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    One problem is this: if you stack firearms into bleed...you would be creating insta-kills with the present Pred system. People currently live through the bleeds for a short time for one reason: base weapon damage is low.

    Make people stack firearms to get the bleed, you'll end up with glass cannons, sure...but they'll be glass cannons doing massive damage with their House/M4 combo, which translates into bleed that makes what people get now seem like a joke (imagine 9000 firearms with the crtical bleed damage that 9000 stamina gets now!).

    Ten rounds hit, target drops like a bag of dirt.

    There would need to be some serious changes made to the Pred bleed system if we went for firearms (note that I'm totally cool with that, the business of getting massive damage while investing into Stamina is just wrongwrongwrong).
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  4. #24
    YodaMan 3D's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sharpandpointy Go to original post
    Wait wat?

    Skillpower sets aren't viable in PvE?

    Are we talking their Classified bonuses, or the sets in general? Because in general, Tacticians is walking murder in PvE.

    If we're talking Classified bonuses, okay, sure, Tacticians got hosed.
    In PvE, the bonuses that Skills used to have been nerfed to compensate possible PvP. SBs in PvE are just 1 trick ponies, that are useless once the trick has been performed.

    Sticky Bombs are great for Tacs to use, but then you have to run and hide cause what you put in your Electronics nullifies any firepower or toughness. You are shooting blanks at this point. So you run and hope the NPCs don't kill you.

    Fire Turrets are great against Reds and Purple NPCs, but you hit Yellows with them, they just stand there and burn off the crusties from their shorts. So when you put so much into Electronics to make them useful, like Tac Builds you are a one trick pony. Run for it.

    The biggest problem with them is their 5th and 6th piece actually weaken the builds. You are usually better off with Barret's and Inventive, that should be a huge RED FLAG right there that makes a classified set worthless.
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  5. #25
    X_Trapnel's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by CJ Fresh Go to original post
    Pred should be reversed, stack into firearms for the bleed and that scales depending on the 3k firearms tiers just like my nomad idea. But to outright nerf Pred would be terrible.Striker is in a precarious situation because no matter what you can always get high dps no matter how you spec it. I don't think people would mind striker if it wasn't for the shotgun stacks. It's already easy to get striker stacks as it is, using a shotgun makes it idiot-proof.
    PC players don't need to use shotguns to get the stacks up. It takes literally seconds to get to 100 per cent damage increase with the House or M4. Now add stamina and an incredible rate of healing to the increased damage and what you have is an unbeatable gear set.

    Hunter's Faith is the only other gear set that can give you 100 per cent damage increase. To compensate for this, that damage lasts only for 10 seconds, the agent can't reload, can't swap weapons, can only use a bolt-action and needs at least 9000 firearms for it to work. No heal, no stamina.

    It makes absolutely no sense for users of high rpm weapons to be given free stamina and healing (they are the players that least need it).

    My personal fix to the three troubled gear sets:

    Strikers - headshots raise stacks, bodyshots lower stacks;
    Predator - 10 consecutive headshots;
    Nomad - make this like Alphabridge and force players to spec into all three areas.
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  6. #26
    YodaMan 3D's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Pig_Bodine Go to original post
    PC players don't need to use shotguns to get the stacks up. It takes literally seconds to get to 100 per cent damage increase with the House or M4. Now add stamina and an incredible rate of healing to the increased damage and what you have is an unbeatable gear set.

    Hunter's Faith is the only other gear set that can give you 100 per cent damage increase. To compensate for this, that damage lasts only for 10 seconds, the agent can't reload, can't swap weapons, can only use a bolt-action and needs at least 9000 firearms for it to work. No heal, no stamina.

    It makes absolutely no sense for users of high rpm weapons to be given free stamina and healing (they are the players that least need it).

    My personal fix to the three troubled gear sets:

    Strikers - headshots raise stacks, bodyshots lower stacks;
    Predator - 10 consecutive headshots;
    Nomad - make this like Alphabridge and force players to spec into all three areas.
    Or we could exchange ideas to buff the other sets.
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  7. #27
    Corrupt.be's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CJ Fresh Go to original post
    Deadeye needs to keep its current damage. Snipers should hit the hardest in the game, this is true even in the pve aspect.

    Maybe change he pvp modifier to lessen TTK which would make sense for high stamina builds to last longer in battle.
    Honestly I don't think the current way of how toughness works is good. TTK is either to high on average or to low on average. Currently way to high imo. But a side effect of a higher damage PvP modifier is a nerf to tank builds. I think a data miner once pointed out having a base health pool and have Stamina actually be an armor investment would've probably been better.

    TTK would be fine if skills weren’t nerfed as hard as they were. Skills need to be significantly buffed on top of the classified set balances.
    TTK is not fine, it has never been fine imo, but it was far more "ok" in 1.6/1.7. At least not if you want this game to function more as a tactical shooter and I mean TTK in general, not just for skills

    Every set should be great at what it does but not so overtuned that everybody runs the same set and weapon.
    Yes, hence my relatively positive feedback on the design of Lone Star, which is one of the few that does it right, albeit with a dumb RNG mechanic.

    I don’t mind the striker heal, as I said just remove stacking with shotguns.
    Depends if the sustain is necessary after retuning other sets. It's not black/white, 1 nerf to 1 set can cause a massive meta shift and make another set OP.

    The problem with nomad is the ability to stack into firearms yet get so much toughness from the health on kill, constant overheating, and self-revive. I saw a guy run through 5 players in last stand and didn’t die as his 6pc kept popping which gives that damage mitigation.
    Yes, hence why I think the "core idea" behind nomad, survivability, is right but needs adjustments but also less RNG based.

    Let a nomad be tanky as heck with the revives and everything but require it to be based on stamina because it’s a survival set and not meant to be a dps set.
    Current meta is everything "has to be" a DPS set indirectly or directly because TTK is atrociously high.

    All the sets play into either dps, survival / utility, or skills. All should be incredibly strong at what they’re supposed to be but not in the other categories.
    That’s why I like having to spec into a stat tobget a bonus. Classified are supposed to pigeon-hold you into a stat to give you great bonuses.
    See my notes on Lone Star, I agree and this is also important to still have some relevance for non 6P Classified builds.

    Imagine hunter’s faith getting all that damage but stacking into stamina, people would burn the forums down, but instead youvhave to go firearms while sacrificing toughness so you HAVE TO PLAY DIFFERENTLY! Yes but with the current TTK, Survivability & weapon/movement mechanics --> Zigzag and run up to a DeadEye/Hunters face and blast him in the face. Enemies should also be forced to approach you differently. But in the same way a good flank and somewhat ranged AR bursting should also take him out. You want everyone to play more tactically basically and this again ties into average TTK being way to high. I know players that snipe in PvP and are relatively good at it but keep saying they NEED balanced. Not because their aim can't keep up, but because the guns accuracy can't keep up with them!
    derp need text.
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  8. #28
    I don’t mind the striker heal, as I said just remove stacking with shotguns.
    Depends if the sustain is necessary after retuning other sets. It's not black/white, 1 nerf to 1 set can cause a massive meta shift and make another set OP.
    I really like this comment here. I change to a set can massively effect it. A good example of this is deadeye. It began out very over powered then it was given special requirements for it to work. Now it is a very nich set to use. Lets not start this trend again with sets. That way we do not limit what weapons or how we are allowed to use these sets. I really dont have any ideas for this set. Iv never encountered a situation in wich I felt it was to strong to compete against due to I always have a emp or shock terret equipped. Good team work typically can counter any set. For me if you have read this far and seen my other posts I have issues with predators mark. However like to see a rework that keeps a strong bleed but requires bleed levels that stack like strikers or sentry. We would still get strong bleeds but players would need to hit target more, that and try removing preds ability to ignore bleed resistance temporarily to see how it effects pvp.
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  9. #29
    Corrupt.be's Avatar Senior Member
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    Exactly, my suggestions are more of a thought process. If I were the dev I'd be trying them out and probably go like "Nope, bad idea... or maybe a little less... a little more...".

    I'm mostly hinting at what's wrong or not quite right and looking where we can nudge it in the right direction.

    Though my stance on TTK and gun mechanics is pretty firm, most of my history is games such as CS, BF, ...
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  10. #30
    nairda2k9's Avatar Banned
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    I'm kind of on the other side of the fence in that I felt TTK in 1.7 was way too fast. Perhaps for hardcore PvP players with pure DPS builds this wasn't an issue but I certainly found myself dying before I could even react.

    I find 1.8 better but this is only true with three sets hence the ridiculous lack of build diversity at presence due to awarding DPS for speccing into stamina or giving sets like Nomad free Toughness allowing users to go all in on FA.

    I find the big issue is Striker healing and Nomad revives. I can get the players health down but having to do it over and over again is the real problem. I am sorry but I also think signatures have no place in PvP. People say you should not expect to win a 1v3 or 1v4. I accept that but if you play smart and kill one you then reduce the odds and should be rewarded by an easier fight. Instead you get the magic hand of God picking them up before getting focused whilst you are at low health.

    Just take signatures out of PvP. It might even make Alphabridge viable if that set was allowed to keep signatures during PvP.
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