Orochi Double Light Nerf vs. Shaman double lights | Forums

[Armosias]

Yup Orochi will become the weakest char at S5 launch, the counter attacker who can't spam two moves anymore. And Cent is becoming stronger with parry changes also? Maybe you should wait for servs, and even more on consoles, before crying, because Orochi will have a heavy worth of damages packed in a light on deflect, basically the same as his top light now, but with an actual skill cap. Oh and yeah we still ain't sure if Ubi is going to change more things DURING S5.
That was my rant.
By the way every char of the OG cast will be reworked sooner or later.

[Knight_Raime]

So, now your solo skill evaluated by the game and maybe some luck in matches etc. determines if ye wrong or right?
Oh boy. Ah anyway, personally I really dislike the nerf on Orochi due to the simple fact of his overly weak kit in comparison to the majority of the roster. Might Orochi just turtle up and try to punish after a parry? Well, maybe. But won't do him any good against a lot of classes.
You know, heavies can be cancelled. Besides, at least from a console point of view, life gets way easier if you needn't care about more then one (or 2) directions. Block top and Orochi is harmless. Zone is a risky commitment in many cases due to stamina usage.
Ah and to prove my point!
https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Klingenlied
This weird site says I am top 0.2% in duel. Guess I am awesome now? (careful, irony!)
However, to put it in line a little: if i'd move to Orochi, I would move to -5 skill levels in almost an instant. Thats just how good he is

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said orochi's kit was weak i'd be rich.
Orochi had more than top light and zone. Plenty of people have already pointed this out but I guess i'll do it one last time.

Both orochi side lights were viable. They are on par with most light speeds in the game. Clearly you can't throw them out all the time. But nothing ever stopped you from throwing a random side light on the opponents end unless they were a parry god.

Orochi's top light is heavy damage. on a heavy parry. something we're actively trying to get rid of in season 5.
Rip tide strike and storm rush were both viable options for whiff punishes that in most cases would guarantee you top light after. or a GB attempt since it was so quick which gives you top light again.
Dodge attacks are nothing special but like with most other ones were great at responding to raw bashes or bash mix ups.
Windgust deflect hits as hard as a heavy does. And hurricane blast hits even harder but with armor and mix ups. Which usually always is followed with top lights after either deflect. Not guaranteed. But fast enough that most people didn't react to them.
Finally top light had some decent ish range and could be reliably used to whiff punish as well.

So if orochi sounds this great why do people consider him weak? Because:
~deflecting is risky
~no one considers side lights when top lights hit harder.
~riptide/storm rush can only be used to punish certain attacks. Top light can be used to whiff punish nearly everything.

And you guys are actively asking for his top lights to not be nerfed when it's basically half the problem of his kit? L.O.L.

Orochi doesn't need much to have a more up to date kit:
~third light in his light>light>light combo is now a heavy and unblockable when done from the side. it would be a 600ms unblockable that can be feinted.
~Storm rush is now faster, can be canceled later, and hits harder. But no longer guarantees a double top light unless you're whiff punishing a longer recovery attack/dodge.
~Storm rush can now be soft canceled into any of his dodge/dash attacks and doing so makes those attacks slightly faster.
~riptide strike now has proper dodge frames like hidden stance and has 2 inputs. the standard input. and the holding it slightly when inputting it. the second one delays riptide strike a bit longer making it unblockable for more damage. it can be feinted.

Boom. There. He's interesting now. And before you take this as aggression against you specifically it's not. I'm just damn tired of people saying dumb crap about orochi that is simply not true. He's not bad. he's not weak. he's just boring. And removing top light domininance is the first step in changing that. His issue was never a weak kit. His issue was top lights just being the best option bar none.

[CandleInTheDark]

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said orochi's kit was weak i'd be rich.
Orochi had more than top light and zone. Plenty of people have already pointed this out but I guess i'll do it one last time.

Both orochi side lights were viable. They are on par with most light speeds in the game. Clearly you can't throw them out all the time. But nothing ever stopped you from throwing a random side light on the opponents end unless they were a parry god.

Orochi's top light is heavy damage. on a heavy parry. something we're actively trying to get rid of in season 5.
Rip tide strike and storm rush were both viable options for whiff punishes that in most cases would guarantee you top light after. or a GB attempt since it was so quick which gives you top light again.
Dodge attacks are nothing special but like with most other ones were great at responding to raw bashes or bash mix ups.
Windgust deflect hits as hard as a heavy does. And hurricane blast hits even harder but with armor and mix ups. Which usually always is followed with top lights after either deflect. Not guaranteed. But fast enough that most people didn't react to them.
Finally top light had some decent ish range and could be reliably used to whiff punish as well.

So if orochi sounds this great why do people consider him weak? Because:
~deflecting is risky
~no one considers side lights when top lights hit harder.
~riptide/storm rush can only be used to punish certain attacks. Top light can be used to whiff punish nearly everything.

And you guys are actively asking for his top lights to not be nerfed when it's basically half the problem of his kit? L.O.L.

Orochi doesn't need much to have a more up to date kit:
~third light in his light>light>light combo is now a heavy and unblockable when done from the side. it would be a 600ms unblockable that can be feinted.
~Storm rush is now faster, can be canceled later, and hits harder. But no longer guarantees a double top light unless you're whiff punishing a longer recovery attack/dodge.
~Storm rush can now be soft canceled into any of his dodge/dash attacks and doing so makes those attacks slightly faster.
~riptide strike now has proper dodge frames like hidden stance and has 2 inputs. the standard input. and the holding it slightly when inputting it. the second one delays riptide strike a bit longer making it unblockable for more damage. it can be feinted.

Boom. There. He's interesting now. And before you take this as aggression against you specifically it's not. I'm just damn tired of people saying dumb crap about orochi that is simply not true. He's not bad. he's not weak. he's just boring. And removing top light domininance is the first step in changing that. His issue was never a weak kit. His issue was top lights just being the best option bar none.

Exactly this, if Orochi was that trash, Hhhmmmm would never have made it to the hero series finals with orochi and he would have been rinsed every game. With orochi, he got out of his group,losing only to tech abuse, and he had close fights where the difference was not what he or his opponent did but that he was on uneven ground and teching a guardbreak knocked him over,so basically he got put to a huge disadvantage in the fight he was knocked out in due to a bug. During that tournament, we saw the whole orochi kit used with both deflects, strom rush and riptide all scoring solid strikes. He is a counter attacking burst damage character whose player base is calling for 'safe openers' and wondering why they are losing in trading damage against characters more built around trading, if they are going to try to use an orochi like a conqueror against a conqueror of course they are going to look weak in comparison.

[Knight_Raime]

Exactly this, if Orochi was that trash, Hhhmmmm would never have made it to the hero series finals with orochi and he would have been rinsed every game. With orochi, he got out of his group,losing only to tech abuse, and he had close fights where the difference was not what he or his opponent did but that he was on uneven ground and teching a guardbreak knocked him over,so basically he got put to a huge disadvantage in the fight he was knocked out in due to a bug. During that tournament, we saw the whole orochi kit used with both deflects, strom rush and riptide all scoring solid strikes. He is a counter attacking burst damage character whose player base is calling for 'safe openers' and wondering why they are losing in trading damage against characters more built around trading, if they are going to try to use an orochi like a conqueror against a conqueror of course they are going to look weak in comparison.

Well flicker I believe was allowed in that tourney too I believe. But your point still stands.
People just have the sad habit of latching onto "the thing" with a kit. and then thinking they know/understand the whole kit.
Like people only focusing on pk's zones/lights when the rest of her kit is pretty dang strong.
Or people only focusing on glad's zone and toe stab. when the rest of their kit is strong.
etc.

I think the only time I ever see an entire kit mentioned by the masses is shaman these days just because the same sentence is repeated so much that it's basically a meme now.