Discussing the parry changes | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

I know we don't have full notes yet d: but I wanted to have a decent speculation post because man oh man I was looking forward to these amongst everything else. This is the one change that undeniably is going to shake up the current accepted tier lists. And because i'm a nerd this pleases me. So for those who don't know FOR THE MOST PART parrying a heavy gets you a light and parrying a light gives your most damaging heavy (exceptions like fully charged heavies.) Also you can now counter guard break if someone grabs you after a parry. They are absolutely making individual hero changes on top of these in order to balance things. I'm not going to talk every hero since I don't have good experience with all:

Centurion....He no longer gets his max light parry punish. Which for the record was parry>fully charged heavy> fully charged jab> pounce attack. Only way that's happening in a 1v1 now is with a wall. and in order to do that you need a throw from a GB. and since parries don't give those now...you see where i'm going. However. He's got parry counter which like all other parry counters should be confirmed regardless of what kind of parry. it does massive stamina damage and gives a free uncharged heavy. Which does lead into his mix up of heavies and soft feinting to GB. And the knee portion of the parry counter also splats. So despite losing his light parry punish he's not getting hit too hard. He might move down a position or 2. but not a tier.

PK:...Normal punish for pk is a gb with triple stab. and all of her extended max punishes involve a throw and triple stab. GB is no longer given in parry. She does have soft feint raw heavy into a GB. But that's a toss up. It can't be done mid combo which would help. I'm not well versed with pk so I don't know how much this hurts her. On one hand she doesn't have really great punishes now. On the other hand the rest of her kit is still very solid. The changes might knock her from best duel hero But I don't think it will take her out of S tier.

Orochi...His double light damage was nerfed in lue of the parry changes. As he'd have the best heavy parry punish in the game by a wide gap. But they buffed both deflects by a good amount. Despite this nerf I think he might go up a position. Maybe 2. depends on how much deflect becomes relevant in the coming months. I base this off of how flexible his hurricane blast is.

Shaman....no longer gets the max punish of heavy into unblockable heavy. She really didn't have a particularly strong punish outside that. But she does still have bite. Which she gets off of a throw. and people still struggle to dodge a raw bite. so she might not change much in terms of position. I can see both sides to the debate though.

Berzerker...No longer has her max punish. if people can tech out of her deflect now (not sure) then she absolutely got hit hard. I can easily see her going down a few positions as her max punish and getting a heavy off of nearly any parry was really the only thing she had going for her. But we don't know the extent of her remake. So can't say for sure regardless.

Shinobi...no longer gets sickle rain from light parry. But he's had a pretty good deflect for awhile. I don't think the parry changes really effect him. probably won't move at all.

Gladiator....will still get skewer on deflect. which is decent. And will still get heavy off of light parry. Like shinobi I don't think the changes effect him much. might change his matchups though.

Warden....will be slightly less effective on the parry front since he won't be able to get top heavies off of both light and heavy parries now. But it's still possible to get a raw top heavy off of a light parry. So while it is technically a nerf he probably won't change position at all.

EDIT: change my warden post because am bad.

[bob333e]

Warden....ouch. No longer will you get top heavies. as you need a GB and wall throw to get it. If you still frequently catch people with SB mix up then he might not change much for you. But in higher brackets this just further cements how poor warden is right now.

Any Warden worth his salt will parry lights for top heavies; other Wardens who fish for GB and SB spam got this parry nerf rightfully so up their noses. There's more to Warden than SB, zone, and parry fish.

I agree about Centurion, Shinobi and Orochi while considering his other damage nerfs. This will definitely change how heroes are distributed across tiers.

[Knight_Raime]

Any Warden worth his salt will parry lights for top heavies; other Wardens who fish for GB and SB spam got this parry nerf rightfully so up their noses. There's more to Warden than SB, zone, and parry fish.

I agree about Centurion, Shinobi and Orochi while considering his other damage nerfs. This will definitely change how heroes are distributed across tiers.

Warden gets a raw top heavy from parrying a light? hmm. Didn't know. I was used to my friend always GBing me after a parry for a splat into heavy.
I guess as long as the top heavy is within 900ms then he should still get it.

[bob333e]

Warden gets a raw top heavy from parrying a light? hmm. Didn't know. I was used to my friend always GBing me after a parry for a splat into heavy.
I guess as long as the top heavy is within 900ms then he should still get it.

Yessum. I do it all the time when parrying Nobushi/Orochi/Glad/Raider lights and Warden top lights (they're the most frequent lights I parry, others are not so frequent).

Your friend, with all due respect... shouldn't use Warden. :P

[Knight_Raime]

Yessum. I do it all the time when parrying Nobushi/Orochi/Glad lights and Warden top lights (they're the most frequent lights I parry, others are not so frequent).

Your friend, with all due respect... shouldn't use Warden. :P

And yes, the top heavy isn't anywhere near 900ms. It's 800ms I believe.

oh my friend is really good aha. potentially he's even done raw top heavy after a light parry.
all I remember (since we haven't sparred in awhile) is constantly being tossed into walls and crushing counters.

good to know then. i'll change my post.

[Charmzzz]

Warden: Top Heavy is 40 Damage @ 900ms (you might get it after a parried Light) while Side Heavy is 30 Damage @ 800ms which will be guaranteed off a parried Light 100%. If your opponent attacks you from Top stance you will want to Crushing Counter anyway instead of parry as it is 40 Damage and flows into a SB.

[bob333e]

oh my friend is really good aha. potentially he's even done raw top heavy after a light parry.
all I remember (since we haven't sparred in awhile) is constantly being tossed into walls and crushing counters.

good to know then. i'll change my post.

Warden doesn't really need to toss into walls since side heavies are guaranteed on any parry or GB (no longer as of S5, seeing as heavies are no longer guaranteed on heavy parry), and his CC is situational as it only works against top attacks.

I removed the line about attack speed because not 100% sure about his top heavy attack speed, I should look it up before posting numbers. But I do believe it was around 800ms or more.

[bob333e]

Warden: Top Heavy is 40 Damage @ 900ms (you might get it after a parried Light) while Side Heavy is 30 Damage @ 800ms which will be guaranteed off a parried Light 100%. If your opponent attacks you from Top stance you will want to Crushing Counter anyway instead of parry as it is 40 Damage and flows into a SB.

Ah thank you for the data. 900ms then.

Yes, CC combo (which will take roughly half the HP bar) is always preferable against top attacks, except if it's an unblockable. As of S5, it's going to be parry > light attack and devise a punish from there. Which I like. The harder it is to land heavy-hitters, the better.

[Knight_Raime]

Warden: Top Heavy is 40 Damage @ 900ms (you might get it after a parried Light) while Side Heavy is 30 Damage @ 800ms which will be guaranteed off a parried Light 100%. If your opponent attacks you from Top stance you will want to Crushing Counter anyway instead of parry as it is 40 Damage and flows into a SB.

Yeah I love that it flows into SB.
I corrected my warden post.
Care to share your thoughts on pk after the nerfs?
I know you play her a ton.

[Knight_Raime]

Warden doesn't really need to toss into walls since side heavies are guaranteed on any parry or GB (no longer as of S5, seeing as heavies are no longer guaranteed on heavy parry), and his CC is situational as it only works against top attacks.

I removed the line about attack speed because not 100% sure about his top heavy attack speed, I should look it up before posting numbers. But I do believe it was around 800ms or more.

He probably did side heavies too. Like of all the wardens I fight he's still the best. I just remember things weirdly.
I remember picking up warden myself a long time ago. Crushing counter still is one of the most satisfying things to me. Thighlanders seems easier timing wise.
I actually spent some time learning to parry crushing counter from both heros. Kind of miss that too aha.