Senior Member
I made a video demonstrating how the AI Squad can be used more tactically.
After a few people watched the vid I made -- it was suggested I bring it to people's attention as the feedback was that most people did not realise the AI Squad could be utilised in this manner.
I don't think I'm reinventing the wheel here, and maybe some of you are already using the Squad in like manner..?
But given how most of the feedback is negative and the general feeling is that the AI Squad are redundant; I actually wonder whether more than a few are not fully aware of how the AI works, how to activate them and use them to greater effect tactically. Which is possible.
Now that said - I'm not defending how limited the AI Squad are. Because I myself was initially disappointed with how limited in scope the tactical command options were.
However, moving on, they're not as redundant as you might think.
So, there are 'workarounds' so to speak.
https://youtu.be/SAbNuQugLBI
In this video, I place my squad on an elevated position (in overwatch essentially) overlooking an enemy encampment that I will be infiltrating.
One I take out my mark, they open fire on the enemy and lay down suppressing fire (6:38) - allowing me to extract safely whilst the enemy is distracted. I then pull the squad back up the hill to a more defendable spot to regroup.
The key things to understand are,
POSITION and ACTIVATION.
POSITION. Positioning your squad smartly can offer quite a few sound tactical options. You can position you squad to create crossfires/pincer movements, use of elevated position to lay down suppressing fire.
You can use hit and run tactics to bait the enemy. Ordering a tactical retreat. This can cause the enemy to pursue your squad - which is useful for creating ambushes or to lure the enemy out of a heavily defended position.
ACTIVATION. One of the most frustrating omissions in this game is a lack of a RoE toggle option.
So, the workaround is understanding how to 'activate' the AI.
So what makes them switch to 'weapons free' and will open fire on the enemy?
The answer is this - If you yourself are spotted by the enemy, they will then open fire.
This is demonstrated in the video - when I was spotted, my squad on the hill (at around 6:38) you hear them say "opening fire" and they start to lay down suppressing fire on the enemy inside the compound.
So IF the enemy spot you OR allowing the enemy to spot you, will in a sense operate the same as commanding your Squad to go weapons free and open fire (without giving the FIRE command).
The FIRE command is useful for doing hit and run attacks against the enemy, or if you want them to fully engage the enemy.
However, the FIRE command is NOT useful if you wish your squad to hold in a particular position, like the overwatch position I had them in in the video clip.
I want to do more video clips to show these things more clearly.
But here's hoping this shows how the squad AI are not as limited as some might have concluded.
Senior Member
Yup, I think so too.
It also doesn't really prove that much. I have seen them in action often enough and yet I wouldn't call them efficient. Especially in the cover role that is implied in this video.
There is this litte burned village where Itacua and La Curz meet. I was standing next to a building, my team behind me, firefight broke loose, the enemy all in front of us. My Ai team didn't do anything to stop a sicario running in the open along the side of the house stepping next to me while I was engaging at the other side. He run the full lenght of a house and around the corner in the open and yet was free to shoot me in the back although the team has said they are engaging and the team was fully upgraded.
That is just one example of their inability to do their part. Their 'coverfire' basically only works if you are already breaking off and not paying close attention to what is happening. They might draw some attention, but the enemy AI is programmed to treat you as their primary target. So as long as you are still in the middle of a firefight they won't be doing enough damage to really make a difference. Only exception is 'Fire!' which turns the player into a spectator because he/she can't keep up neither with the damage sustained nor the movement.
And finally - since you can't order a hold fire, once persued by enemies (especially Unidad helos) you can't break off until they break contact - which they can't if enemy uses vehicles.
Not to mention the pointless nature of having 3 guys sit in a spot.
Yes, they have a minimal impact and some effect on the gameplay, but you can do the same thing is shown in the video with them running around you in stealth and 'opening up' once you get detected. There is no real tactical effect in placing them somewhere. On the contrary it just increases the chances of them being spotted and thus breaking your stealth.
Member
And on Tier 1 setting above 20 the time between spotting and killing you is less time than it takes for the AI to react to a threat. So tactically giving yourself away is not a valid tactic.
The "fire" setting is far too deadly while the other setting is too useless.
The AI positioning and ROE seriously make me think the single player was just tacked on when someone at Ubisoft said " but what if players can't get online for Co-op?"
Senior Member
Since the AI characters were shown in the first reveal trailer nearly two years before release, then I find it hard to believe they were an afterthought. We were also seeing information about them being in the game in 2015, back then thinking that it would always be 4, I.e 2 coop players would get 2 AI team mates.
In other words the AI control scheme is deliberately what it is. Over ambitious in my view and not the classic approach I wanted, but that also means it is worth our while asking, and to keep asking, for changes.
Senior Member
I have to agree with Bio on this one.
I still find the AI have very limited use and trying to use them in the game is an exercise in frustration for me. Personally, I mainly use them for sync shot, revives and as a last resort when I'm really in trouble. In most cases I won't use them at all, preferring to give them the "go to" command to sit in a spot away from the action.
Since they are able to shoot through objects, positioning makes no difference with sync shots and when I need a revive, they seem to teleport to my position anyway in a lot of cases.
There are some rare cases where I might use them to infiltrate and overrun a small base but most times not. They are not very effective until you give them the fire command and then in that case, they become some elite killing machine with a mind of their own. .....while I sit back with a thumb up my butt wondering what I'm supposed to do at that point. .....not a lot of fun IMO.
Member
Yes, saw the video a couple of weeks ago and while a nice video, I would not (personally) call it tactical AI in any way, shape or form but, I have come to learn that my definition of tactical may differ from others so I left it alone then. since I am guessing you post it again to get more feedback, for me, personally, as soon as I see a video with all the Xmas lights on, I immediately dismiss it as Tactical. Also, posting 3 people together on a rock that even a blind man can see them is not tactical since they are no more than a couple hundred meters away, that and the fact that you don't need more than 1 guy posted there for overwatching purposes, the other 2 can be posted somewhere else for more overwatch, have them tell you where the enemy is w/o LoS, etc, etc but again... everybody has a different definition of what tactical is.
Bottom line, for me, if that is what a tactical game should be or how a tactical AI should behave then I would play it and perhaps even enjoy it but it is not a proper GR experience nor what I am lookinf on a GR game.
This from a perspective of a PC Single Player Gamer
Senior Member
What's not tactical about having them placed in overwatch on an elevated position..??? (And all 3 guys obviously because you cannot split them up)
It achieved the purpose for which I placed them there.
Watch at 6:38 - not one of the 5 or more enemies are even looking in my direction, as they are focused on my team on the hill that are laying down fire on them -- creating an effective diversion, allowing me to extract unnoticed .....
I thought it worked pretty well...?
Also, I would think basic tactics mandates that splitting up divides the enemies focus and fire power.
If you are all together in one spot it means the enemy only has to concentrate its fire power on a single position. So splitting up, and in a sense, creating two fire teams can mean the difference in a fire fight surely?
But yeah, I'm an old PC gamer myself. My game of choice was Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis back in the day. That was the most complete military sim I've played.
But let's be real, I don't think I've played a military sim or tactical shooter where the squad AI was particularly noteworthy or stand out.
Listen guys, like I said, I'm certainly not defending the Team AI. I know it's not great, and it's pretty inconsistent.
And agreed - the FIRE order is way overpowered. It's one of the reasons I don't upgrade my squad at all. To at least try to keep some realism.
I would prefer,
1) to be able to give orders to each individual team member
2) to be able to toggle the RoE
But I do feel that the Team AI are not completely redundant and I've been able to use them tactically (albeit in a limited fashion).
You can create cross fires, use them for diversions or to harass the enemy then tactically retreat to lure the enemy away from a position or into a trap. These are possible.
Senior Member
I've played ARMA 3 a couple of weeks again and I was actually surprised how well the AI performed. Even when following me they now seem to act a lot smarter. They used cover, kept overwatch in different directions. They were really useful on their own, but I still could place them individually and they where never completely out of reach when following. I was never pleased with how they behaved before, but this time around I really liked it. Perfect mix between possible micro management without the actual necessity to make them efficient. But this can't be compared to what the ghosts are doing...
Senior Member
Socom did it better. This game is awesome because I love the genre but make no mistake about it, the AI is the worst I’ve ever seen for a shooter. Go back and play Socom 1 and be marveled at the fact that a 15 year old game did it better. At the very least the developers needed to add a gun hot gun cold toggle. This way you can do what you did in this video and have them go hot while staying in that position.
There’s just s muh disappointment with the AI in this game. It’s game breaking at times.
